The NEW LEO Encounters...
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Thread: The NEW LEO Encounters...

  1. #1
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    The NEW LEO Encounters...

    There are 22 topics on the first page of the "LEO Encounters" of this forum; 13 of which are negative, a couple of questionables, and the rest simply human interaction with authority figures (i.e. benign). I realize that there are thousands of encounters everyday by law enforcement and the majority either go well or are resolved against an adversarial subject(s) one way or another.

    What is so troubling is the persistent increase of these "mistakes" (killing and armed cover of suspects for minor crimes, killing peoples animals, forced entry and arrests at wrong addresses , etc.), the absolute lack of any remorse ("We'll apologize if you drop your right to sue us for a flagrant violation of your rights"), and the outright contravention of American civil liberties and entitlement to constitutional protections. The police have become over militarized and seek only to control every situation as opposed to utilizing any discretion or discourse. Force is frequently the first form of action in many LEO encounters and we are all perceived to be violent, abusive, but principally arrestable. My brother-in-law (who is a major in a State Police force) has more than intimated that the new recruiting standards are dramatically different than in years past for all LEO's. Police forces are looking for people who strictly follow any and all orders, may have an overly assertive personality, love martial actions, and tend to act first and answer questions later. Higher authorities count on the "Blue Line" not breaking under almost any circumstance (sounds like a cartel of sorts, doesn't it?).

    Folk's, there is a whole new paradigm at work in our law enforcement community that have permeated the vast majority of our police forces from small town Constables to the top of the FedGov chain. The police determine your rights at any given moment and they need not fear any professional repraisals for the most part (killed over being suspected of being a bookie (which if one follows the whole story the "perp" was set up from the beginning) - SWAT Tactics at Issue After Fairfax Shooting - shooter still on force). If the officer is found to be in the wrong, he/she may get a short suspension and some community service (and probably not even that) but their job is generally secure and the prevailing government authorities insurance picks up the tab. (In the case noted above, my follow-up showed that there was a $2M rendition but nothing more from the Fairfax Police - pay the fine and life goes on (except for the person we unjustly killed and the family we destroyed).

    LE is becoming more aggressive and intolerant; they exercise very limited discetion and even less support for your civil and constitutional rights. Running afoul of the police these days can easily be a very dicey proposition no matter what the situation and even if there is no situation. I love seeing the stories and the videos of the successful citizens that pull off "resistance of right violations" but with the wrong officer or group of them things can go south very quickly. A lawyer told me recently that the governments greatest wish is to get everyone into a situation to commit a felony - that would then take care of the so called "gun problem".

    We're all suspects now... how's it feel?
    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad.” – Aldous Huxley

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  3. Suspects? I thought we were all potential terrorists? If proven neither, we are mere peasants, bricks in the wall. Beings of indentured servitude, to be spat on by the out of control, ivory tower elitists called our political system.

    And then there is the approaching militarized police state. Do we not see the glee of battle in the eyes of younger police recruits? They were brought-up with it on a computer screen! They are already steeped in the human disconnect of violence they will perpetrate. As the police become more violent, so will the citizens of this country, unfortunately. Violence begets violence, death begets death.

    We have a helluva fight brewing on the horizon. May not be tomorrow, or next month, or next year, but it is foolish to ignore the signs of dictatorial governance, and the abuses associated with it. Our founding fathers correctly called it, tyranny.

    Finally, I am a firm believer in two term limits for ALL politicians; one in office, the other in prison.

  4. #3
    Oh boy is the badge polishing crowd going to be upset over this one......
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #4
    I often think of this forum in the same way I think of the Politics forum. The only reason to come in here is to see the negative spin.

    I will freely admit that there are bad cops and bad, illegal, and downright evil encounters with them. However, I also feel that the good encounters are grossly under-reported. Call me a badge polisher if you like. I would accept that moniker proudly.

    Can't you see that when you condemn all police for the misdeeds of a few, you are acting exactly like the antis. They condemn all gun owners for the actions of a few crazies. Many of the members here should look in the mirror before throwing those stones. In this, you are no better than the Brady kooks.

    Perhaps you've had a bad experience with LEO,s. Maybe you've has two or three of them. Who knows...your entire local department or SO might be corrupt. Does that mean that they ALL are? Having spent some years behind the badge, I fully expect to be scorned and ridiculed. When I am, I just try to consider the source. And believe me, our opinion of you is a mirror of your opinion of us in many cases.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Perhaps you've had a bad experience with LEO,s. Maybe you've has two or three of them. Who knows...your entire local department or SO might be corrupt. Does that mean that they ALL are?
    What it means is that any one of them COULD be, and that it's manifestly in my interest to view what they do with extreme skepticism.

    I mistrust cops because of what they both do and DON'T do, namely police THEMSELVES.

    Remember, it's been PROVED IN A COURT OF LAW that the Chicago Police Department maintains a "code of silence". Do you think that they're the ONLY ones?

  7. #6
    Then by your reasoning, all gun owners are suspect. They shouldn't be trusted because any one of them COULD be a mass murderer. It's been proven in a court of law that gun owners have killed people.

    I reject that argument. Like I stated, it's exactly the same as the Brady bunch argument.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    What it means is that any one of them COULD be, and that it's manifestly in my interest to view what they do with extreme skepticism.

    I mistrust cops because of what they both do and DON'T do, namely police THEMSELVES.

    Remember, it's been PROVED IN A COURT OF LAW that the Chicago Police Department maintains a "code of silence". Do you think that they're the ONLY ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Then by your reasoning, all gun owners are suspect. They shouldn't be trusted because any one of them COULD be a mass murderer. It's been proven in a court of law that gun owners have killed people.

    I reject that argument. Like I stated, it's exactly the same as the Brady bunch argument.
    Let me ask you this, Lakeland Man.... why do you carry a gun in civilian life? Is it not to protect yourself from the very small percentage of the general population that you come into contact with everyday that may choose to commit a violent criminal act against you or your family? How many violent crimes are committed against you and your family compared to the number of the general public that you pass every day? So, are you not distrusting every person you pass in public enough that you feel the need to protect yourself from them by carrying a gun?

    I doubt if there is any member on this forum who would say it is foolish to carry a gun to protect ourselves from the one in a million chance we may encounter that one or small group of people that may choose to commit a violent criminal act against us out of the thousands or millions of people we might encounter during the course of our lifetimes. So.... why is it so unreasonable to you when some of us say that there is a small percentage of the police force that are bad and we should take reasonable steps to protect ourselves during a police encounter in case that unknown stranger who has detained us happens to be one of the few who is bad? What's the difference?

    A small percentage of the general population have proven themselves to be violent criminals, so we exercise our 2nd Amendment rights to the fullest extent to protect ourselves in case we encounter one of them. A small percentage of the population of police officers are less than honorable, so why is it wrong for us to exercise our 4th and 5th Amendment rights to the fullest extent in order to protect ourselves in case we encounter one of them?

    Why is it perfectly acceptable for us to talk about the strategies and tactics involved in protecting ourselves from violent criminals, but making all police officers suspect when we discuss strategies and tactics involved in protecting ourselves from the small percentage of police officers that are bad?

    And if you do not think that you are suspect until proven innocent in the eyes of at least one or more agencies of the government, than you truly have your head buried deep into the sand of the government propaganda.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #8
    I agree with most of your reasoning. However, a couple of points. LEO's take an oath to serve and protect the public. The general public, including gun owners and carriers do not. Do some of those LEO's violate that oath? Yes. But not all and I would say not most. I don't argue that there some bad cops. What I object to is the seemingly pervasive feeling among some members here that most or all cops are bad. When I was an LEO, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of my peers who were less than honorable, and I would still have 4 fingers left over.

    I carry to protect myself from the darker elements of society. However, everyone I pass is not suspect. I don't mistrust all the people I come into contact with. I don't act as if they all have intentions of harming me and my family. I don't want to live in that kind of a paranoid state. I am ready for confrontation at all times but I don't expect everyone to be the bad guy. So far, this has served me well.

    When you are standing in line at the grocery store, do you expect the cashier to whip out a knife and attack you? Unless it's my ex-wife, I don't. Am I ready for such an attack? I like to think so. But readiness and fear or paranoia are two different things.

    How many thousands of times a day do you suppose LE come into contact with the public? And how many of those times do you suppose the LEO is wrong or doing something they're not supposed to. I don't have numbers or statistics, but I'd be willing to wager that the percentage is statistically insignificant. However some posters here seem to feel the reverse is the norm. They judge all by the actions of a very few. Once again I say that that is Brady reasoning.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    I agree with most of your reasoning. However, a couple of points. LEO's take an oath to serve and protect the public. The general public, including gun owners and carriers do not. Do some of those LEO's violate that oath? Yes. But not all and I would say not most. I don't argue that there some bad cops. What I object to is the seemingly pervasive feeling among some members here that most or all cops are bad. When I was an LEO, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of my peers who were less than honorable, and I would still have 4 fingers left over.

    I carry to protect myself from the darker elements of society. However, everyone I pass is not suspect. I don't mistrust all the people I come into contact with. I don't act as if they all have intentions of harming me and my family. I don't want to live in that kind of a paranoid state. I am ready for confrontation at all times but I don't expect everyone to be the bad guy. So far, this has served me well.

    When you are standing in line at the grocery store, do you expect the cashier to whip out a knife and attack you? Unless it's my ex-wife, I don't. Am I ready for such an attack? I like to think so. But readiness and fear or paranoia are two different things.

    How many thousands of times a day do you suppose LE come into contact with the public? And how many of those times do you suppose the LEO is wrong or doing something they're not supposed to. I don't have numbers or statistics, but I'd be willing to wager that the percentage is statistically insignificant. However some posters here seem to feel the reverse is the norm. They judge all by the actions of a very few. Once again I say that that is Brady reasoning.
    I'm curious about the part of your post I put in bold for emphasis...

    What did you do about the officer you knew was less than honorable? Did you take steps within your dept. to address his/her less than honorable actions?

    And before there are any attempts to equate a police officer with an ordinary person please understand that those who have the authority to enforce the law need to be held to a higher standard of "honor" because of the amount of power that authority holds. And the ordinary person does NOT have that authority or power.

  11. #10
    In answer to your question, I did nothing. But that is because I and most of my peers did not find out about his misconduct until it came to the attention of our superiors. And I don't know what my peers who DID know about it did. That information was not made common knowledge.

    It just seems to me that some posters here NEVER have a good thing to say about LE.

    NavyLCDR, let me ask you a question. Now I don't know if you are active duty or reserve, but if there were a crime committed "on post" who would you call? And when you DID call the SP's, would you expect them to be as incompetent as you seem to think civilian LE are?

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