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Thread: This is why people hate the police

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    No, it would be why SOME people hate the police. Few people hate all the police because the actions of a few bad cops.
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    From watching the video, it appears the choke hold is what did the damage. He was obviously unconscious going down the stairs, and what few blows his head did take weren't all that hard. They didn't support his head, but they were holding his arms up so his head didn't hit every step, and what steps it did hit it didn't appear to hit with full force. At least not enough to make you brain dead anyway. I wonder what the autopsy said. He died Aug 2nd.
    Unless you have seen a video of the full descent down the stair case that I haven't been able to find, you have no conceivable way to conclude what you have concluded in the bold text above.

    Following is the last frame of Mr. Ruiz being dragged down the stairs on the only video I've been able to find. His head has just hit the fifth stair from the top:



    There are literally 10 more chances for the JBT's to further injure Mr. Ruiz that the video does not capture. The video goes from the above last frame on stair #5 to a few seconds before that point when Mr. Ruiz was still on the landing. The camera is a little more zoomed out and the whole staircase can be seen:



    And there's zero photographic evidence in the only video I've been able to find that shows what happened after the crowd was on the concrete at the bottom of the stairwell, or the asphalt in front of it from the camera's perspective.

    Even you admit that they likely choked Mr. Ruiz to death. Why would it be a stretch to think they likely brutalized him more on the way down the stairs or after they got all the way down?

    Either way, whether he died from the choke, or from head injuries sustained after he was semi or unconscious, these thugs should be standing trial for murder. None of them will though, that much is certain.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Unless you have seen a video of the full descent down the stair case that I haven't been able to find, you have no conceivable way to conclude what you have concluded in the bold text above......
    That's why I said it 'appeared' that way. I wasn't offering it as a conclusion. He was obviously unconscious though, and he wasn't dragged down the staircase with his head simply bouncing down the steps as was originally claimed, or as was it was originally made to sound. I'd still like to see what the autopsy revealed. I would imagine brain asphyxia would yield different indications in an autopsy than brain trauma. That's where conclusions should come from.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Either way, whether he died from the choke, or from head injuries sustained after he was semi or unconscious, these thugs should be standing trial for murder. None of them will though, that much is certain. Blues
    Can't rule out the Taser either. Some people have heart conditions where a dry stun to the chest will disrupt the sinus rhythm resulting in a cardiac arrest. No matter how you slice it it's a homicide on the cops part. This man died as a result of the police action. I see a lawsuit in their future.
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    Errrrr, cause and effect. If true, the PD that handled this should be looked at BUT....with a BIG BUTT, the man had history. Reap what you sow, juz saying..
    A history of what? You gotta history of something as well. Being a jackass! Are you a bad cop or a good cop? Do all the good cops have a smiley face tattooed on their forehead? What is it about you, besides being a jackass, that cops can choke you out for? Hey...how about letting cops drag you down concrete steps face first? Now that would be a great video. Maybe while dragging you down the steps your lip could split open for a quick blood shot! You are the problem if that is all you can say..."...he had a history". Well so the hell do you. LEO's are getting way out of control. It is now, especially in big urban areas, that law enforcement has a big issue with anybody that questions their authority. They are now killing anything that offends them. What in the name of God has LEO put in their water. Many LEO, that term is offensive, are causing themselves to be reviled. Hope you guys like it.

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    Can't rule out the Taser either. Some people have heart conditions where a dry stun to the chest will disrupt the sinus rhythm resulting in a cardiac arrest. No matter how you slice it it's a homicide on the cops part. This man died as a result of the police action. I see a lawsuit in their future.
    Time out here. I'm in no way defending the alleged actions of the LEOs but if someone were to die because of taser use, a LEO is not held responsible since it is the ACTIONS of the suspect that justifies the force. Death is a secondary effect due to unforseen circumstances. Ie: drugs, heart probs, delerium, etc. Death by bouncing a guys head down a flight of stairs is unjustifiable.

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  7. #16
    Tasers kill. That's well documented. Choke holds kill. That's well documented. Can't help but wonder if the PD would have treated him differently if they knew up front that he was the son of a detective.
    And, most surprised to see it was Phoenix PD....story seems to fit Maricopa County Sheriff Deputies...that was a surprise to me.

  8. #17
    So, they're either guilty of killing him, or of abusing a corpse after the taser killed him.
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  9. #18
    I'm sure I'm going to get flamed here, but I'm sure there are "bad" LEO's, just like there are "bad" regular folk. The difference is that I think that 99.99% of the LEO's have the best interests of the general population in mind. Can't say that is probably the case with the general population. They DON'T have an easy job, are unappreciated, but without them, we'd be in a $hitload of trouble.
    Just remember, we're only seeing a fraction of what goes on, and then, usually only what goes wrong.

    (I'm not a LEO, just appreciative of what they do for us).
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  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    Time out here. I'm in no way defending the alleged actions of the LEOs
    I didn't imply or even mean to imply that you were defending them. Simply noting the fact that the use of the Taser could not be ruled out as causing or contributing to his death.


    Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    but if someone were to die because of taser use, a LEO is not held responsible since it is the ACTIONS of the suspect that justifies the force.
    It's still a homicide! Their actions (the Tasering, choke hold, dragging him down the stairs) caused or contributed to his death. If you or anyone's actions lead to the death of another human then the death is classified as a homicide. A ruling of criminal, justifiable or accidental will be determined at some later point. I agree with you on the force issue. Most law enforcement agencies have policies that guide their use of force. These policies describe a escalating series of actions commonly referred to as the Use-of-Force Continuum which officers may take to resolve a situation. This continuum generally has many levels and officers are instructed to respond with a level of force appropriate to the situation at hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    Death is a secondary effect due to unforseen circumstances. Ie: drugs, heart probs, delirium, etc. Death by bouncing a guys head down a flight of stairs is unjustifiable.
    Doesn't matter what his health conditions was. The only thing unjustifiable was the way the police handled it. This is a growing problem nation wide. Some agencies have a God complex where they view their actions or tactics are beyond criticism or review. They see every problem as a nail which needs to be hit with a hammer. There are documented cases where police have killed people having medical emergencies. The lucky ones who survived the encounter were charged with assault, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, etc., and when the facts come to light the charges are quickly dismissed and lawsuits settled out of court. Very rarely will the police issue an apology. Many departments view issuing an apology exposes the officer or department to liability which is why you always hear "we are reviewing our policy" BS. Pretty soon there will be SWAT teams for overdue library books.

    On a finale note, "Excited Delirium" is not a valid medical term and is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders or recognized by the American Medical Association or the American Psychological Association. However, STDS (Sudden Taser Death Syndrome) should be promptly added.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
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  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    It's still a homicide! Their actions (the Tasering, choke hold, dragging him down the stairs) caused or contributed to his death.
    Killing someone in self defense who was trying to kill you is technically a homicide too. What dad45acp was getting at is that a person who dies from a taser incident due to a heart condition that is unknown to the police and is thus unforeseeable, means they aren't responsible in a manner that would make them guilty of murder. That's quite different from a prolonged choke hold or bouncing someone's head down a flight of stairs, because death is a logical and likely foreseeable outcome of such actions.
    .
    Doesn't matter what his health conditions was. The only thing unjustifiable was the way the police handled it.
    Actually it matters very much, as I just pointed out. It could make the difference between a murder charge and something far less serious.
    .
    This is a growing problem nation wide. Some agencies have a God complex where they view their actions or tactics are beyond criticism or review.
    I agree with that, though not necessarily that it's growing. I think the opposite may be the case. We're just hearing about it more and more because technology and the information age are making it far easier to catch them in the act. That makes it seem like it's more common because we're hearing about it more often, but I think they're just getting caught more these days. In fact, I think the ones being caught are a disincentive to bad behavior, because they're very much aware of how much more they're being observed these days than they ever were before. Actually I know that, at least to some extent, because I work with cops on a fairly regular basis. They talk about such things when they're with people they trust.
    .
    On a finale note, "Excited Delirium" is not a valid medical term....
    Yes it is, and just because you didn't find it in a couple of medical books doesn't mean it isn't. How about this from the University of Miami Department of Neurology:
    .
    Excited Delirium.org
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    Or this from the National Center for Biotechnology Information, which is part of the National Institute of Health:
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    Excited Delirium
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    There's lots more out there, but you get the point.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

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