KommieFornia LEO's Shoot & Kill a 13 year old boy armed with 'plastic toy guns'. - Page 2
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Thread: KommieFornia LEO's Shoot & Kill a 13 year old boy armed with 'plastic toy guns'.

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    That's a pretty good question...
    but before I can try to answer your question, I must first ask 'you' a question...

    Who would 'you' blame if it was 'your' 13 year old kid who was gunned down simply because he was playing with a toy gun?

    Would you blame;


    A) Your kid?
    B) Yourself?
    C) The Toy Gun Manufacterer?
    -or-
    D) The trigger-happy LEO's?

    I would have to choose (D).

    I just expect more from our men & women in uniform, I'm kind of funny that way.
    None of the above.

    Responsibility is on the parents or guardian for not educating themselves and their child about how to handle a gun real or fake. Don't you remember your parents telling you not to point your toy gun at anyone. Yes may not shoot any lethal projectiles but it taught you a lesson in common sense and courtesy. Parenting and education could have prevented this unfortunate outcome.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    Maybe our LEO's should stop using these type's of "No Hesitation" target's during their live fire exercises.....

    "No Hesitation" = Dead Innocent Kid's!

    DHS training with practice targets featuring children, pregnant woman? | Washington Times Communities
    Outlaw's link to the Wash Times article illuminates the psycho-babble being put forth by various LE agencies and their supporters (e.g. LET, Inc. who makes these targets). This quote: “The subjects in NMH targets were chosen in order to give officers the experience of dealing with deadly force shooting scenarios with subjects that are not the norm during training. I found while speaking with officers and trainers in the law enforcement community that there is a hesitation on the part of cops when deadly force is required on subjects with atypical age, frailty or condition (one officer explaining that he enlarged photos of his own kids to use as targets so that he would not be caught off guard with such a drastically new experience while on duty).
    This hesitation time may be only seconds but that is not acceptable when officers are losing their lives in these same situations. The goal of NMH is to break that stereotype on the range, regardless of how slim the chances are of encountering a real life scenario that involves a child, pregnant woman, etc. If that initial hesitation time can be cut down due to range experience, the officer and community are better served.”

    The bold above demonstrates to me an officer that has no business being one but I'm sure he is heralded in his department as being "ready for any circumstance". Really... this is the cop that shoots the 13 year old. "Tattedupboy" does have a point here and we all need to hear the denoument of this event before passing judgement. but virtually all of the replica rifles and handguns I've seen over the last 15 years or so have red or orange muzzles and other features denoting a simulacrum. As the facts (will the public ever get the genuine truth here?) come out we should be able to ascertain who was right or wrong.

    Above in red, we also see the false notion that a cops life is to be saved above all others. Yes, police do go toward crime and that is a risk, one they have to accept when they swear an oath. But that oath does not include that their personal life is so elevated above the rest of us that the public is mere fodder for paranoia, deadly misjudgements, and general abuse.This of course does not mean that an LEO has to take inordinate risks that would endanger themselves, but it does mean that better training and situational assessments would most assuredly be in order.
    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad.” – Aldous Huxley

  4. #13
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Before we go blaming this on trigger happy, overzealous cops, let's not forget that a lot of these toy guns kids play with today look like the real thing. How is a cop (or anyone who isn't a cop, for that matter) to know whether or not the gun in the kid's hand is real? Wait to see if it fires real bullets after the kid points it at them and pulls the trigger? I think not! That's not to say that the kid deserved to die; he didn't, especially when what he was carrying wouldn't have harmed those cops. If indeed the gun looked real, who's to blame, the kid or the cops?
    By federal law, since 1987 all toy/airsoft guns have blaze orange tips on them to distinguish them from the real thing. It is a federal offense to remove the orange tips.

  5. #14
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    I have to agree with benq also. The kid should have been taught to respect/obey the officer.
    I wonder if they'll post a photo of the toy rifle to see if it has the orange tip ?
    Summer hobby is boating on the Bay and Lake Michigan.
    Winter hobby is driving that Jeep off the sides of mountains.

  6. #15
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by MI .45 View Post
    Outlaw's link to the Wash Times article illuminates the psycho-babble being put forth by various LE agencies and their supporters (e.g. LET, Inc. who makes these targets). This quote: “The subjects in NMH targets were chosen in order to give officers the experience of dealing with deadly force shooting scenarios with subjects that are not the norm during training. I found while speaking with officers and trainers in the law enforcement community that there is a hesitation on the part of cops when deadly force is required on subjects with atypical age, frailty or condition (one officer explaining that he enlarged photos of his own kids to use as targets so that he would not be caught off guard with such a drastically new experience while on duty).
    This hesitation time may be only seconds but that is not acceptable when officers are losing their lives in these same situations. The goal of NMH is to break that stereotype on the range, regardless of how slim the chances are of encountering a real life scenario that involves a child, pregnant woman, etc. If that initial hesitation time can be cut down due to range experience, the officer and community are better served.”

    The bold above demonstrates to me an officer that has no business being one but I'm sure he is heralded in his department as being "ready for any circumstance". Really... this is the cop that shoots the 13 year old. "Tattedupboy" does have a point here and we all need to hear the denoument of this event before passing judgement. but virtually all of the replica rifles and handguns I've seen over the last 15 years or so have red or orange muzzles and other features denoting a simulacrum. As the facts (will the public ever get the genuine truth here?) come out we should be able to ascertain who was right or wrong.

    Above in red, we also see the false notion that a cops life is to be saved above all others. Yes, police do go toward crime and that is a risk, one they have to accept when they swear an oath. But that oath does not include that their personal life is so elevated above the rest of us that the public is mere fodder for paranoia, deadly misjudgements, and general abuse.This of course does not mean that an LEO has to take inordinate risks that would endanger themselves, but it does mean that better training and situational assessments would most assuredly be in order.
    Excellent reply sir! You are spot on with everything that you have stated in this post imvho.
    Fascist's are Magicians...They can make our Property, our Freedom's & even our Children 'Disappear'.
    ~Outlaw~

  7. #16
    ezkl2230 Guest
    OK - now I'm going to ask the one question no one else has asked. The reporters obtained the comments of the parents through a spanish speaker. Did the boy even speak english? From what I can see in the article, it appears that A) the boy never actually pointed the replica at officers, he just never put it down, B) this may have been a migrant family and C) there might have been a language barrier that prevented the boy from understanding the demand. In any case, it appears to me that the officers made a really bad call here.

  8. #17
    This one has a photo... I don't see an orange tip. Calif. police shoot, kill 13-year-old with fake rifle - CBS News
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  9. Kids grow up with shoot-em up cartoons, and shoot-em up video games. Then they go play with their toy guns and get shot. Law Enforcement needs to be a little less aggressive. Seems like they are all getting training in being rude and aggressive to the public. Got a ticket from State Patrol not long ago for speeding. I was no where near the speed he claimed I was going. He said 87 in a 65 in heavy traffic. It was a Packers sunday and there were many headed to Green Bay for the game. It would have been impossible to go that speed in that traffic. And above 80 most GM cars shake like a leaf. And he was a real prick about it. Rude, wouldn't even consider that maybe his radar had picked up someone going south instead of north toward Green Bay.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    This one has a photo... I don't see an orange tip. Calif. police shoot, kill 13-year-old with fake rifle - CBS News
    According to the link telpinaro posted the rifle wasn't a toy it was a replica. Not sure what the diference is but if you are walking down the street carrying a "fake" gun and a cop points a real gun at you and tells you to drop it common sense would tell you that you damn better drop the gun.

    It would depend on the rifle but around here if you see a kid walking down the road with a duck gun he's probably on his way to hunt ducks
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  11. #20
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    It would depend on the rifle but around here if you see a kid walking down the road with a duck gun he's probably on his way to hunt ducks
    Same around here.
    Summer hobby is boating on the Bay and Lake Michigan.
    Winter hobby is driving that Jeep off the sides of mountains.

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