KommieFornia LEO's Shoot & Kill a 13 year old boy armed with 'plastic toy guns'. - Page 4
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 41

Thread: KommieFornia LEO's Shoot & Kill a 13 year old boy armed with 'plastic toy guns'.

  1. #31
    Doesn't sound like they gave the kid much of a chance. Maybe instead of screeching up, sirens blaring and yelling at the kid, they could have, I dunno, walked up to him calmly and asked what was up? Poor kid was probably scared out of his mind and too confused to understand what was happening. It seems that more and more, police are adopting this always-on, SWAT team mentality, and it's getting people killed. I wonder how much shoot-no shoot training the average officer is getting? I'd rather have them doing that than punching paper and assuming that everyone with a gun has intent to harm.
    Owner of Applied Perspective, specializing in laser engraving and fine art photography
    -or-
    Just some guy who loves to shoot

  2.   
  3. #32
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by AppliedPerspective View Post
    Doesn't sound like they gave the kid much of a chance. Maybe instead of screeching up, sirens blaring and yelling at the kid, they could have, I dunno, walked up to him calmly and asked what was up? Poor kid was probably scared out of his mind and too confused to understand what was happening. It seems that more and more, police are adopting this always-on, SWAT team mentality, and it's getting people killed. I wonder how much shoot-no shoot training the average officer is getting? I'd rather have them doing that than punching paper and assuming that everyone with a gun has intent to harm.
    As I noted in another post, the problem is that police have been on a "war" footing for nearly the last 20 years. It isn't the "protect and serve" with which most of us grew up, where cops were friendly, approachable, and more likely to talk someone into surrendering and go an entire career without ever pulling the trigger; these days it is a war on crime - and that changes your entire approach, whether you intend to change or not. In a war, one is more likely to pull the trigger first and ask questions later - assuming the suspect is still alive to answer them. I don't know if it is even possible to return to the former approach any more; I certainly hope so.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by jeff martin View Post
    Cops carry less than deadly force with them!! Better to taze the kid than kill him!!

    The Second Amendment protects All Rights!!
    Would you take on a guy carrying (what you absolutely believe to be)an AK with a tazer?
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  5. I understand that this was a tragedy but no matter how hard I try I can’t get around the fact that the kid was walking around with what looked like a real AK, which would be illegal in California. Based on the pictures that I’ve seen here, he would have fooled me and if he had point it at me I wouldn’t have asked to drop it I would have shot him. Also, language barrier or no how bright to you have to be to figure it out that when a cop points a gun at you to drop the toy gun you are carrying? I would have got that with out a word spoken, so I really can’t blame the cops.
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,422
    Quote Originally Posted by AppliedPerspective View Post
    Doesn't sound like they gave the kid much of a chance. Maybe instead of screeching up, sirens blaring and yelling at the kid, they could have, I dunno, walked up to him calmly and asked what was up? Poor kid was probably scared out of his mind and too confused to understand what was happening. It seems that more and more, police are adopting this always-on, SWAT team mentality, and it's getting people killed. I wonder how much shoot-no shoot training the average officer is getting? I'd rather have them doing that than punching paper and assuming that everyone with a gun has intent to harm.
    I agree as a general statement, but in this specific scenario, the reports that I've seen so far say that the kid was turning towards them.

    I know of no shoot/no-shoot training exercises where anyone, cop or non-cop, is trained not to shoot when someone is turning towards them with what they reasonably believe to be a real rifle after already having been ordered to drop it.

    The picture of the "toy" lends credibility to the officers' reasonable belief that they were facing a real weapon. That's the only reason I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. It could certainly change if eye-witnesses or reports of spontaneous utterances by the cops who shot the kid come to light that tend to suggest that they were trigger-happy and/or unreasonable.

    It seems to me that we should all know that the distinction between reasonable and unreasonable has much less to do with the amount of time it takes to decide to act, than it has to do with the totality of the circumstances leading to the action(s). Facing what one reasonably believes is a real weapon can happen in fractions of a second. The time is less relevant to me than the appearance of the "toy," the position of the kid and the reasonableness of the cops' belief that it was a real weapon.

    To be clear, I am not defending the cops, I am giving their version of events the benefit of the doubt that it's true until I see/hear evidence that it's not. I would hope and pray that gun owners and 2A advocates would do the same for me if I shot someone based on the looks of the "toy" in that picture. No one that I know could determine in a split second that that "replica" wasn't real. While tragic, I'm just not sure that the shooting wasn't legal, and that's really the only question here for me.

    Blues

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    Lets assume citizens took the same logic when an armed officer walked on to private property without an invite or notice, turn about fair play??

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    Lets assume citizens took the same logic when an armed officer walked on to private property without an invite or notice, turn about fair play??
    Let us know how that works out for you
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    I know of no shoot/no-shoot training exercises where anyone, cop or non-cop, is trained not to shoot when someone is turning towards them with what they reasonably believe to be a real rifle after already having been ordered to drop it.

    The picture of the "toy" lends credibility to the officers' reasonable belief that they were facing a real weapon. (snip)
    Blues
    I don't disagree. I wrote that reply after reading a different article with even fewer details. However, I do wonder what they expected to happen when they approached the kid from behind? It seems to me that in any circumstance where you start yelling at someone from behind their back, they're going to turn around. Whatever they've got in their hands is going to turn with them. If they'd driven around the block so the kid could see them coming, the situation would have been very different, and they would have had a much easier time making a positive determination of whether he was a threat.
    Owner of Applied Perspective, specializing in laser engraving and fine art photography
    -or-
    Just some guy who loves to shoot

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    As I noted in another post, the problem is that police have been on a "war" footing for nearly the last 20 years. It isn't the "protect and serve" with which most of us grew up, where cops were friendly, approachable, and more likely to talk someone into surrendering and go an entire career without ever pulling the trigger; these days it is a war on crime - and that changes your entire approach, whether you intend to change or not. In a war, one is more likely to pull the trigger first and ask questions later - assuming the suspect is still alive to answer them. I don't know if it is even possible to return to the former approach any more; I certainly hope so.
    I'm thankful to know that not all cops have adopted this mentality. I have an airsoft Desert Eagle that didn't come with an orange tip. When I was running around the woods in a city park (not too far from the bad part of Minneapolis) playing airsoft with some friends, and some concerned neighbor called the cops and reported "a bunch of shady looking kids with guns" the responding officer thankfully didn't drop me, but instead approached in a way that we could all see him, and calmly asked what we were doing. I'm sure he was on high alert mentally, but instead of coming at us yelling, he resolved the situation quickly, quietly and effectively by NOT freaking out and then telling us we should probably find some private property to do that on. He was a bit surprised that a bunch of guys in their 20s would be playing airsoft though. This was about 6-7 years ago.
    Owner of Applied Perspective, specializing in laser engraving and fine art photography
    -or-
    Just some guy who loves to shoot

  11. #40
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    756
    I agree, before we go making a rash judgement on LEs, we need to see how real these guns looked. Most toy guns have the Orange tip, unless theyre pellet guns. Im sure well hear more about this.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast