First Encounter With LEO since receiving CCP. - Page 2
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Thread: First Encounter With LEO since receiving CCP.

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    Is this really that big a deal? Oklahoma requires notification so when I ever get pulled over I will but I've been pulled over with a 30-30 in the gun rack in the back window and the cop didn't give a damn. At least he didn't say anything
    Are you asking why is this really that big of a deal that it warrants starting yet another thread to describe a perfectly normal traffic stop that happens hundreds of thousands of times every day?


    Or are you asking is this really that big of a deal to just waive away rights to privacy and the right to carry lawful objects without needing to tell law enforcement officers about our legal possessions and activities at the first sight of a badge and uniform at our car window?


    Or are you asking is this really that big of a deal that 10 states have laws that only require law abiding citizens to disclose their lawfully possessed items and lawful activities to police officers and that those same laws do not even apply to the criminals carrying firearms illegally?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    Career internet avengers have no other avenue.

    Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
    If someone is going to make the exact same post that has been made hundreds of times already about a perfectly normal traffic stop, than why are we "internet avengers" to make our same reply that has been made hundreds of times already? You imply that we "internet avengers" have no life - why not make the same implication to the OP who is "guilty" of the same exact behavior - posting the same thing for the hundredth time again?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #13
    I'm not gonna quote Navy, that'd be a little long! But I think we'll have to link back to this post in every subsequent argument about whether to inform an LEO during a traffic stop. Excellent summary. And I'd definitely inform a LEO if I was a lawyer... That'd tell him he'd better behave because I probably know every letter of the law and am sue-happy! LOL

    I've been wondering lately why so many CC instructors and former cops recommend informing. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's instructor told him he should inform, required or not; mine did. I've been told other instructors in my area recommend informing as well. Is it just a form of CYA? Maybe it was good practice in the past when our rights were less likely to be trampled. Anyone have any ideas or insight?
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  5. Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    I'm not gonna quote Blues, that'd be a little long! But I think we'll have to link back to this post in every subsequent argument about whether to inform an LEO during a traffic stop. Excellent summary. And I'd definitely inform a LEO if I was a lawyer... That'd tell him he'd better behave because I probably know every letter of the law and am sue-happy! LOL
    Ummm...Blues hasn't posted on this thread....yet. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    I've been wondering lately why so many CC instructors and former cops recommend informing. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's instructor told him he should inform, required or not; mine did. I've been told other instructors in my area recommend informing as well. Is it just a form of CYA? Maybe it was good practice in the past when our rights were less likely to be trampled. Anyone have any ideas or insight?

    I would say the biggest reason the CC instructors recommend informing (and, basically, taking the conservative way out in every situation) is that it is just the easiest way to instruct - they don't have to explain rights and laws and all that - just give the usual excuses for informing about the permit and gun and move on; and in just about every case it is the "safest" for the instructor because there are usually a lot less possibilities for a legal battle if the student is taught to simply comply - the officer reacts however they are going to react - the student might, in rare cases, suffer a frisk or temporary seizure of the firearm "for officer safety" and that's it if the student just complies. In addition the "just comply" rule is usually the easiest and quickest for the student, at the expense of voluntarily waiving 4th amendment rights to privacy. I won't waive my 4th amendment rights for the sake of convenience.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Ummm...Blues hasn't posted on this thread....yet. :-)
    Ha... thoroughly embarrassed now! Fixed that... the last three threads I read this afternoon had several posts by him so my fingers got ahead of me. Sorry!

    That does sound logical, though... Lazy, but safer for the instructor.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    If someone is going to make the exact same post that has been made hundreds of times already about a perfectly normal traffic stop, than why are we "internet avengers" to make our same reply that has been made hundreds of times already? You imply that we "internet avengers" have no life - why not make the same implication to the OP who is "guilty" of the same exact behavior - posting the same thing for the hundredth time again?
    It was a collective response. No matter the dead horse beating, it still happens. But really, to no fault of the new member cuz they're jumping right in to gain some knowledge and in turn, getting beat up by typically the same few members that suggest that they hold some sort of rank due to the number of posts they have attained.

    Sent from my hand-held mind distractor

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmikey01 View Post
    wow I got spanked on that post.
    No, not at all. I think you were cordial and accommodating to the LEO. He was good and everything worked out. But if you read the forums you'll find there have been similar interactions that went real bad for a person not violating any law. It's a roll of the dice when you get pulled over. He could be anybody, gun friendly or foe. In the future just hold-of unless asked or if you must get out or if it's in the glove box and you just open it for your insurance info. Just always follow the aw and you should be OK
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    You are new and we are a tough crowd. The problem is that there is an ongoing and frequent discussion that comes up at least once per week about why it is that law enforcement officers are special above other citizens and why they deserve to be told about your lawfully carried firearm when other people don't. Nobody has been able to answer that question yet. Maybe you can help us to understand. You are traveling late at night and you stop at a convenience store for coffee to stay awake or gas. Before you walk into the store, think about the store clerk in there for a moment. They have no idea who just pulled into the parking lot. You might be a person who is just going to buy coffee and be pleasant and be a good guy - or you might be someone who is going to walk in and stick a gun in their face for $100 out of the cash drawer and a carton of cigarettes. Or, maybe you are going to drag them to the back and rape them. So, now, when you go to pay for your coffee you accidentally flash your gun when you reach for your wallet. What is the convenience store clerk supposed to think?


    So, our question that we never have gotten a satisfactory answer to is why is the police officer more deserving to know about your lawfully carried firearm than the convenience store clerk? Why would you not inform the store clerk about your permit and gun when you first walked in? Why would you not want to show the store clerk that you were a good guy by showing them your gun permit? The store clerk just wants to go home safe at the end of their shift to their family. The store clerk is in a dangerous job and subject to be the victim of a criminal at any moment. The Department of Labor says there are nine or ten professions that workers are more likely to die on the job than police officers are including farmers, lumber workers and sanitation workers. So why are police officers more worthy of being informed about your permit and gun than the farmer is who puts themselves in more danger every day than the police officer in order to provide food in the grocery store for you to eat. Or the sanitation worker who puts themselves in more danger every week than a police officer does in order to take away your trash?


    And, in addition, how many more hundreds of thousands of traffic stops every day go just like yours did where the gun or a permit is never mentioned by either the person stopped or the law enforcement officer? Almost finally, if you carry to protect yourself in the slight chance that you might meet a criminal among the hundreds of people you pass in public during the day, then why do you take the chance of offering your gun to a police officer who might just use that opportunity to pull you out of the vehicle, take your gun from you, needlessly handle it, unload it, run the serial number to see if it is stolen and frisk you and search the allowable area of the vehicle all without your consent? It doesn't make any sense to carry a gun to protect yourself from the once in a lifetime chance that you might have to use it to stop a criminal and then to just offer it up as a sacrifice to a law enforcement officer who might react to it in the extreme.


    Finally, why is the gun different than other object that you legally possessed? The gun, in your holster, is no more of a danger to the law enforcement officer than the tire iron in your trunk is or the cell phone in your pocket is. In fact, if you were a lawyer, that cell phone in your pocket would probably pose more danger to a law enforcement officer's career than your gun, so if you were a lawyer, would you tell the officer about your license to practice law right up front just to be polite and respectful? How many hundreds of thousands of traffic stops every day go just exactly like yours did where a gun or permit is never mentioned by either the law enforcement officer or the subject, so why are traffic stops where the police officer was professional after being informed of a lawfully carried gun so special? Is it that we expect less of police officers and the ones who remain professional are the rarity?


    I know you just posted because you were excited about your stop because it was a first for you. But all of the above just happens to be the crapstorm that you walked into, probably unknowingly. There are ten states where notifying the police officer is required by law (which is a law that accomplishes nothing towards officer safety), we are only discussing the other 40 states where it is not required...btw. People claim to tell the officer about their permit and gun for the sake of the officer - either for their safety or to be "polite" or "respectful". We just don't see why that doesn't apply to other classes of citizens as well who either risk being a victim of a criminal every day on the job or have a higher risk of dying on the job in order to provide an essential benefit to the public. It seems like the only real logical reason to do so is to hope to gain favor in the officer's eyes to increase the chances of getting out of the ticket the person deserved to get.
    Firstly, you ask why a Police Officer should be notified above all persons of a person carrying. I can tell you in probably the simplest of terms. Mood. It sets the mood for the stop. Firstly, the Officer has no idea who hes pulled over, obviously they have a better chance of running into a person who has just committed a robbery, a rapist, or a murderer. An honest person would notify the officer of his LEGAL firearm carry permit, as where a criminal will not. Traffic stops can be quite nerve racking, youre tense, youre nervous, and probably not happy you just got caught going 50 in a 35, or not coming to a complete stop.
    You have to ask yourself, if YOU were a police officer, wouldnt you like to know if there is a loaded gun in the car? I dont think its such a bad thing, I mean, what do you have to hide, why not tell the officer youre carrying? Whats the big deal?!

    Ive told plenty of officers I carry, none seem to care, then again, Ive never been in a traffic stop with an officer either, its always come up in casual conversation. My state requires we inform the officer, which is fine by me. However, people forget amongst being nervous. Now you may say, "why be nervous" its just natural to be nervous when youre "in trouble" much like wife finding out you just took the last soda or your mom finding out you broke a vase. Just happens.

    So, in short, Im all for informing the officer. What ever makes him feel more comfortable, if anything, he may trust you just a LITTE more than the last scum bag he tossed in the back seat of his car. Its a courtesy and in my case, a law. I dont see a violation of rights informing.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    If someone is going to make the exact same post that has been made hundreds of times already about a perfectly normal traffic stop, than why are we "internet avengers" to make our same reply that has been made hundreds of times already? You imply that we "internet avengers" have no life - why not make the same implication to the OP who is "guilty" of the same exact behavior - posting the same thing for the hundredth time again?
    I thought that this part of the forum "LEO Encounters" was where you could post your experience(s). It goes to reason that there would be more than one post to this part of the forum whether the experience was the same as others or not. I appreciate all of the feedback that I received and it definitely made me think about how I handled this encounter. Thanks again for all the feedback.

  11. #20
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    The Constitution is dead.

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