First Encounter With LEO since receiving CCP. - Page 4
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Firstly, you ask why a Police Officer should be notified above all persons of a person carrying. I can tell you in probably the simplest of terms. Mood. It sets the mood for the stop.
    Right. It sets the mood that the subject the officer has in front of him is just that, a subject, not a citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Firstly, the Officer has no idea who hes pulled over, obviously they have a better chance of running into a person who has just committed a robbery, a rapist, or a murderer.
    First of all, someone who just committed a robbery, raped someone or is wanted for murder is going to ignore the blue lights and run like their hair's on fire.

    But secondly, even if that isn't the case, I have to prove to a cop that I'm not a robber, rapist or murderer because I had a freakin' light burn out on my license plate or some other traffic infraction? Have you ever heard of a little document called The Constitution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    An honest person would notify the officer of his LEGAL firearm carry permit, as where a criminal will not.
    Sooooo.....you're saying I'm a criminal? Because I will not notify unless specifically asked (as required by law here) or the cop illegally escalates a simple traffic stop into an unjustified detainment by pulling me out of my car to "get to the bottom" of my piss-poor attitude. Of course, he has misinterpreted my silence and strict adherence to the law in the documents I give him as a piss-poor attitude. I guess he thinks I'm obligated to ask about how the ol' lady and kids are doin' or make small talk while he's writing a ticket for a burned out freakin' light bulb or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Traffic stops can be quite nerve racking, youre tense, youre nervous, and probably not happy you just got caught going 50 in a 35, or not coming to a complete stop.
    Yeah, well, that's just it. I don't speed. I drive five mph under the speed limit on the highway, and set my cruise control to exactly the speed limit around town. And chances are, if the cop says I didn't come to a full stop, he's lyin' because he's short on his quotas. Yeah, I'm not happy about that. Freakin' pirates anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    You have to ask yourself, if YOU were a police officer, wouldnt you like to know if there is a loaded gun in the car?
    Hey, I'm sure the cop would like me to polish his freakin' boots too, or wash his car, or kiss his rosy red backside, but he's going to be disappointed by all of the above too. So what? Why are his wants above mine? I have the rights that he's violating by expecting of me that I disclose information that is none of his damned business by law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I dont think its such a bad thing, I mean, what do you have to hide, why not tell the officer youre carrying? Whats the big deal?!
    He's a cop. He has no special standing to know anything about me that I either don't want to disclose to him, or that isn't required by law that I disclose. What's the big deal? It's my business, that's what, and it's none of his business. Why is that such a big deal to you that you have to combine a question mark with an exclamation point? Fact is, it's none of your business either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    My state requires we inform the officer.....
    Well there it is. You don't have a choice, so you try to make the rest of us who do out to be the bad guys if we don't polish the cop's badge just like you have to do by law. Why don't you move to NY and carry only seven rounds in the 10-round mags you're allowed to own, and then come on here and tell us that we all should do the same thing because you have to? That would make as much sense, which is to say, it makes none.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    I'm asking if it really that big of a deal that you have a damn gun in your truck? My town has no police department but the Sherrif's Deputies around here don't seem to care one way or the other
    It seems like it is the gun owners themselves who are making it more of a big deal that they are lawfully carrying a firearm than the police are.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    -- Snip --
    I do not disagree with most of what youre trying to say, however, working in a similar field, both while I was in the Army and working Security, the number one thing I worried about was weapons, Id rather know theyre there. I can see the point youre making with notifying persons of carrying weapons, ie taxi drivers or the innocent 7/11 cashier. However, as a Police officer, I am sure the last thing they would like to come into a surprise with is a firearm, in view, or within the vehicle. Do you not notify an officer youre carrying if youre called out of the vehicle for whatever reason? Of course you do, and of course, the situation has changed yes, but still, youre notifying the officer of the weapon on your person, or possibly now within view. I do not disagree its a pointless LAW to have, however, by me notifying the officer I am carrying, the chances are less likely he is going to completely freak out when he or his/her partner sees my weapon on my hip because quite possibly my seat belt has possibly exposed my weapon in some way, or because my weapon is tucked between the seats. It makes the chances of your encounter going south a little less problematic.
    Yes, youre fortunate in your state that you do not have to inform, would I if I wasnt required, probably, why? Im more comfortable with informing the officer I have a concealed weapons permit. Why? Preference. In my experience (cops even admit it), the more crime there is in the area, the less the cops will mess with you or care that you’re armed—they have real crime to deal with—as long as you don’t look or act like a criminal.
    I guess what Im trying to say, a surprise for an officer isnt going to go well for you if he/she discovers you have a weapon. Were all human, were all unpredictable, just because you or I have passed a generic background check and had our fingerprints taken, doesnt make us all safe people, you or I could shoot a cop just as easy as anyone. Notifying the officer, in my opinion is best. We will all have our opinion, but me notifying has not done me wrong. If you dont want to notify, dont. I cant answer all of your questions, and some of them are a bit extreme. However, if you feel you shouldnt notify, then dont, simple as that, nothing I say, whether it makes sense or not will change that.

    I have a question for you, if an Officer asked you if there were any weapons in your car, how would you respond? In most cases, criminals will not declare a weapon, however, if for what ever reason an officer has Probable Cause to search your vehicle, how do you think he/she will react to finding your weapon tucked in a seat, glove box, range bag or what ever? How would he/she react conducting a Terry Pat on you without declaring? Its easier to show the license and get on with it, if the case arises than to find out with a face full of pavement and a glock to the back of your head, wouldnt you agree?

    Either way, again, I can not answer all of your questions, nor will I try to, some of which have no answer, while others, I simply cant form words to make it make sense. But I have to say, debates like this will always turn up, such as the OC vs CC debates we have, well have one side, and the other.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Right. It sets the mood that the subject the officer has in front of him is just that, a subject, not a citizen.



    First of all, someone who just committed a robbery, raped someone or is wanted for murder is going to ignore the blue lights and run like their hair's on fire.

    But secondly, even if that isn't the case, I have to prove to a cop that I'm not a robber, rapist or murderer because I had a freakin' light burn out on my license plate or some other traffic infraction? Have you ever heard of a little document called The Constitution?



    Sooooo.....you're saying I'm a criminal? Because I will not notify unless specifically asked (as required by law here) or the cop illegally escalates a simple traffic stop into an unjustified detainment by pulling me out of my car to "get to the bottom" of my piss-poor attitude. Of course, he has misinterpreted my silence and strict adherence to the law in the documents I give him as a piss-poor attitude. I guess he thinks I'm obligated to ask about how the ol' lady and kids are doin' or make small talk while he's writing a ticket for a burned out freakin' light bulb or something.



    Yeah, well, that's just it. I don't speed. I drive five mph under the speed limit on the highway, and set my cruise control to exactly the speed limit around town. And chances are, if the cop says I didn't come to a full stop, he's lyin' because he's short on his quotas. Yeah, I'm not happy about that. Freakin' pirates anyway.



    Hey, I'm sure the cop would like me to polish his freakin' boots too, or wash his car, or kiss his rosy red backside, but he's going to be disappointed by all of the above too. So what? Why are his wants above mine? I have the rights that he's violating by expecting of me that I disclose information that is none of his damned business by law.



    He's a cop. He has no special standing to know anything about me that I either don't want to disclose to him, or that isn't required by law that I disclose. What's the big deal? It's my business, that's what, and it's none of his business. Why is that such a big deal to you that you have to combine a question mark with an exclamation point? Fact is, it's none of your business either.



    Well there it is. You don't have a choice, so you try to make the rest of us who do out to be the bad guys if we don't polish the cop's badge just like you have to do by law. Why don't you move to NY and carry only seven rounds in the 10-round mags you're allowed to own, and then come on here and tell us that we all should do the same thing because you have to? That would make as much sense, which is to say, it makes none.

    Blues
    Looks like someone woke up in a bad mood, where in my posting was I as disrespectful and rude as you are in yours? I just think its better to inform the officer, doesnt mean YOU SHOULD in your state. My OPINION is mine, and mine alone, I believe what I believe for a reason, and you may not, thats fine, and thats what makes us individuals.
    Yes, my state requires it, I see some sense in it, youre does not, and I see sense in that as well. I have read the constitution, fought for it, defended it, I have lost friends and family in service to it, so please, dont preach to me about the constitution.
    I never once stated you had to prove youre not a criminal by showing your CPL, all I said was it sets the mood, and the officers do not know who they pulled over. Im sure youve seen COPS on TV, how many of the criminals actually stop for the police, quite a few as Ive seen. Some try and cooperate with police in hopes they can get off without having to run, I mean, youve seen how most of them wear their pants right?

    Im not trying to push my beliefs on anyone, and I apologize if it came off that way, but then again, your post makes you come off as an ass hole, so how am I to interpret that?

    As I posted to NavyLCDR I cant answer all of your questions, I wont try. I dont care of your driving habits, I could personally as a civilian care less if youre carrying concealed or openly, thats your choice as long as you have the legal right to do so, however, much like our soldiers, our LEOs come into contact with some ignorant people, some who have no regard for life, Officers have a stressful job, is it that much of an infringement on your carrying rights as to notify the officer youre a CPL holder and youre carrying a weapon?
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I do not disagree with most of what youre trying to say, however, working in a similar field, both while I was in the Army and working Security, the number one thing I worried about was weapons, Id rather know theyre there.
    Another question that has never been answered that I ask frequently - if it is so important to the officer that they know about weapons, then why don't they just ask up front? "Sir, ma'am, do you have any firearms or other weapons with you today?" How hard is that? Took me longer to type it than it would to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Do you not notify an officer youre carrying if youre called out of the vehicle for whatever reason? Of course you do, and of course, the situation has changed yes, but still, youre notifying the officer of the weapon on your person, or possibly now within view.
    What do you mean, "of course you do?" No, I have not in the past. I have been asked to step out of the vehicle once during a traffic stop. I did not notify the officer of my gun that was openly carried in a holster on my belt because he never really gave me a chance to. I exited the vehicle and walked slowly back to where he was standing with both my hands and my firearm on my belt clearly visible. He never said a word about my gun, just said that he didn't want to lecture me in front of my family, that I needed to slow down, and he was going to let me go with a warning. In the future, after that experience, I will not inform if the only request is to exit the vehicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I do not disagree its a pointless LAW to have, however, by me notifying the officer I am carrying, the chances are less likely he is going to completely freak out when he or his/her partner sees my weapon on my hip because quite possibly my seat belt has possibly exposed my weapon in some way, or because my weapon is tucked between the seats. It makes the chances of your encounter going south a little less problematic.
    I take many steps to ensure the traffic stop has as little problems associated with it as possible. Pulling over in a safe place, roll window down all the way, required documents ready, polite greeting, engine off, hands on wheel, interior light on at night. Now, again, I must ask, why is it my responsibility to ensure the gun is not a problem for the officer? Again, if a firearm or other weapon is going to be a problem for that particular officer than why doesn't the officer just ask? If the subject lies to the officer, and then the officer discovers a gun/weapon, then there is reason for the officer to take the action that might be "problematic" as you say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I guess what Im trying to say, a surprise for an officer isnt going to go well for you if he/she discovers you have a weapon.
    Depending on how bad the officer's reaction is, he might find himself in front of a judge explaining his bad reaction to lawful behavior exhibited by the subject of the traffic stop when there was no indication of any criminal behavior afoot other than a traffic infraction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Were all human, were all unpredictable, just because you or I have passed a generic background check and had our fingerprints taken, doesnt make us all safe people, you or I could shoot a cop just as easy as anyone.
    And that is exactly why I won't inform the officer of the gun that has no bearing on the traffic stop and great chance they won't know about anyway is because I cannot predict how the officer will react if I do tell them. You are aware there are officers like Daniel Harless out there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I have a question for you, if an Officer asked you if there were any weapons in your car, how would you respond? In most cases, criminals will not declare a weapon, however, if for what ever reason an officer has Probable Cause to search your vehicle, how do you think he/she will react to finding your weapon tucked in a seat, glove box, range bag or what ever?
    I have never been asked. If I was asked, I will be honest. If they don't ask, I'm not volunteering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    How would he/she react conducting a Terry Pat on you without declaring? Its easier to show the license and get on with it, if the case arises than to find out with a face full of pavement and a glock to the back of your head, wouldnt you agree?
    No, I do not agree. I should not have to nor will I waive a single one of my rights for the sole purpose of keeping a rogue police officer from violating them! "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, Friday, Feb 17, 1775. Let the officer put me on the ground and a Glock to my head when they find a legal object in my lawful possession - then the officer can explain in court the justification for the search to begin with, and their reaction to finding the firearm, when all they had to do was ask if I had one to begin with.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Looks like someone woke up in a bad mood, where in my posting was I as disrespectful and rude as you are in yours?
    I don't think I was rude or disrespectful at all. A little more direct than you'd like apparently, but I consider straight talk a sign of respect, not a sign that respect is lacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I just think its better to inform the officer, doesnt mean YOU SHOULD in your state. My OPINION is mine, and mine alone, I believe what I believe for a reason, and you may not, thats fine, and thats what makes us individuals.
    Sorry, I only responded to what you typed, not what you now say you meant. You said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Firstly, you ask why a Police Officer should be notified above all persons of a person carrying. I can tell you....
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Yes, my state requires it, I see some sense in it, youre does not, and I see sense in that as well. I have read the constitution, fought for it, defended it, I have lost friends and family in service to it, so please, dont preach to me about the constitution.
    Well, honestly, it never occurred to me that *asking* you if you ever heard of it was preaching about the Constitution, but then, that's pretty much the attitude that I despise anyway. First you say that people should notify cops above all persons and then you say you're going to tell us why we should notify, and every word of that is counter to a constitutional view of law enforcement. And now here you are doing the same things many cops do, get all indignant if someone stands up for their rights. You say I'm "preaching" about the Constitution, and I've actually had cops ask me, "What, are you some kinda lawyer?" because I deigned to say, "I don't answer questions outside the presence of my attorney." Now, if you don't understand that cops, prosecutors and judges are the only people who have the power to violate my rights with very little recourse on my part, and so asserting them up front is only prudent, then I think maybe you've never really paid much attention to the Constitution that you fought for and defended. I mean, I appreciate your service and all, but serving the Constitution is not quite the same as understanding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I never once stated you had to prove youre not a criminal by showing your CPL, all I said was it sets the mood and the officers do not know who they pulled over.
    That's not "all" you said. You said it "sets the mood" (as if accurately predicting what "mood" notification of a gun might set the cop off into is even possible or probable in the first place) because, "obviously they have a better chance of running into a person who has just committed a robbery, a rapist, or a murderer." See, I actually read and respond to what you say. You basically said that you can set a good mood for the cop by preemptively establishing that you didn't "just" commit a robbery, rape or murder by spontaneously saying, "By the way, I have a permission slip and a gun." You should learn how to say what you mean, because the way you put it is that it is up to the 100% innocent subject to set the cop's mind at ease that they aren't a robber, rapist or murderer, when our system of justice prohibits cops from treating subjects like criminals unless they have reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has already been, or is about to be, committed. You put the onus on the subject, and that is completely back-asswards from how the cop is sworn to conduct the stop. It equals saying that it is up to the subject to prove he's not a criminal before any mention, suspicion or treatment as such even comes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Im sure youve seen COPS on TV, how many of the criminals actually stop for the police, quite a few as Ive seen. Some try and cooperate with police in hopes they can get off without having to run, I mean, youve seen how most of them wear their pants right?
    How many of those "criminals" that get pulled over on Cops "just" robbed, raped or murdered though? That's what I was responding to. And I don't wear my pants around the bottom of my cheeks, so what does that have to do with anything anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Im not trying to push my beliefs on anyone, and I apologize if it came off that way, but then again, your post makes you come off as an ass hole, so how am I to interpret that?
    Well, I guess you could accuse me of being disrespectful and rude within the same post that you called me an ass hole for simply asking some questions and refusing to accept your meme that people should give a second thought to trying to manipulate a cop's "mood" during a stop. Oh, wait, that's what you just did. Nevermind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    As I posted to NavyLCDR I cant answer all of your questions, I wont try.
    Right, because trying to validate your position would require more twists and turns than a carnival pretzel. Good decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    ....much like our soldiers, our LEOs come into contact with some ignorant people, some who have no regard for life, Officers have a stressful job
    Yeah? Stressful huh? Try walkin' 8" to 20" wide beams 30 or so stories in the air for a living for a few years. Try rappelling off the side of a building while a helicopter crane brings the sign you're installing to the 26th or 34th stories of a building that a ground-crane couldn't reach. Try watching all your teachers and older co-workers die off from asbestos poisoning. Those are just things I have stressed my way through, and never, not once, did I ever use on-the-job stress to justify demanding of others that they treat me like some kind of demigod to make sure my freakin' mood doesn't get outta whack! And truth be told, as stressful as my days as a Steelworker were, they paled in comparison to lots of other jobs that cause lots more stress, maybe including cops, but who cares? If you can't handle heights, you can't be a Steelworker. If you can't handle stress, then it should be set up so they can't be cops, but no, badgefluffers from coast to coast badger the rest of us to join them in the fluffing. No thanks. They're no more special than you or me or your wife or mine or anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    ....is it that much of an infringement on your carrying rights as to notify the officer youre a CPL holder and youre carrying a weapon?
    I thought you said you weren't trying to change anyone's opinions? Like I said, fluffers badger the non-fluffers. Why, I have no idea. Perhaps if you could explain rationally why cops' stress levels are any more important than yours or mine, you could explain why you feel the need to fluff 'em up.



    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Yeah? Stressful huh? Try walkin' 8" to 20" wide beams 30 or so stories in the air for a living for a few years. Try rappelling off the side of a building while a helicopter crane brings the sign you're installing to the 26th or 34th stories of a building that a ground-crane couldn't reach. Try watching all your teachers and older co-workers die off from asbestos poisoning. Those are just things I have stressed my way through, and never, not once, did I ever use on-the-job stress to justify demanding of others that they treat me like some kind of demigod to make sure my freakin' mood doesn't get outta whack! And truth be told, as stressful as my days as a Steelworker were, they paled in comparison to lots of other jobs that cause lots more stress, maybe including cops, but who cares? If you can't handle heights, you can't be a Steelworker. If you can't handle stress, then it should be set up so they can't be cops, but no, badgefluffers from coast to coast badger the rest of us to join them in the fluffing. No thanks. They're no more special than you or me or your wife or mine or anyone else.

    Blues
    Yup! Exactly what I was thinking and then I read your post. Steelworkers have nerves of steel. One false step is death and that's all day, every day. If one can't handle heights then he shouldn't be a steel worker. If one can't handle a legally armed citizen then he shouldn't be a LEO. I'm surely not interested in making him feel safe.

    BTW, Finally broke-down and bought the Les Paul.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Yup! Exactly what I was thinking and then I read your post. Steelworkers have nerves of steel. One false step is death and that's all day, every day. If one can't handle heights then he shouldn't be a steel worker. If one can't handle a legally armed citizen then he shouldn't be a LEO. I'm surely not interested in making him feel safe.

    BTW, Finally broke-down and bought the Les Paul.

    Especially since attempting to make the LEO feel safe may very well cause the endangerment of myself, the law enforcement officer, and bystanders if the officer should choose to handle my gun needlessly in response to my needlessly telling them about it. (Assuming I am in one of the 40 states where it is not required, of course)
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Especially since attempting to make the LEO feel safe may very well cause the endangerment of myself, the law enforcement officer, and bystanders if the officer should choose to handle my gun needlessly in response to my needlessly telling them about it. (Assuming I am in one of the 40 states where it is not required, of course)
    Exactly. It shouldn't be an issue with a normal LEO and a law-abiding citizen. Personally I'm not telling him anything unless required by law. It just opens the door for another wanker cop to hassle us.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  11. #40
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    Sounds like a positive encounter with a good police officer.

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