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Thread: The militarization of America's Police Forces

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    If you look at todays day and age, the traditional sense of a police officer is severely under equipped to deal with today's criminal. Level 3A vests [which are common issue, I wear one myself at work] are only equip to handle at most a 44 Magnum. Todays criminals are coming using weapons at that level or above, as weve seen in recent mass shootings. Combine that with a growing threat of terrorism, like I said, a severely under equip police officer, ie first responder. I doubt the Government is planning some mass take over of the General Public, how could so many people keep quiet for so long without the bubble bursting and alerting everyone? Im all for a Government that shouldnt be trusted, but coming out with some opinionated column is hardly a cause for concern at this point and time.


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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI .45 View Post
    To date, I know of no mass shooting where a true automatic weapon has been in possession of the perp.

    Does the LA Bank of America count?
    Both crooks had fully automatic weapons and used them to great affect.
    LOTS of casualties as well.



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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorrison View Post
    Does the LA Bank of America count?
    Both crooks had fully automatic weapons and used them to great affect.
    LOTS of casualties as well.
    I yield to my distinquished collegue from Vermont... principally, I was referring to psychopaths who's intent is simply to mass murder innocents as opposed to bank robbers looking to shoot their way out of a bad situation. But, the LA heist is one of the very few police encounters where the bad guys had automatic weapons. I think it's safe to say that all of the intentional mass shootings for the sake of just killing was done with semi-automatics.
    One other thing concerning automatic weapons: there are quite a few in legally owned private hands. If this power corrupts so absolutely as the left would have us believe - why have there not been any outright massacres by these people?
    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad.” – Aldous Huxley

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    It needs to be pointed out that this is an opinion piece.
    It's also a bit slanted in that it's leaving out some pertinent information. For instance, the MRAP at Ohio State University was donated, not acquired, and all of the armament was removed from it. It's also used as the bomb squad vehicle for Columbus Ohio because Columbus doesn't have one. Not so sinister when all the facts are known. I'd be willing to bet the other instances would be similar.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
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  6. I'd simply like to point out that some cops, a majority that I work with, will be standing up right behind you if something like gun confiscation were to take place. Please consider a majority of officers do think for themselves and are like minded....
    Sieve

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorrison View Post
    Does the LA Bank of America count?
    Both crooks had fully automatic weapons and used them to great affect.
    LOTS of casualties as well.
    Actually, there were only two casualties - the two perps. Still a valid counter-point to the post you were replying to though.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorrison View Post
    Does the LA Bank of America count?
    Both crooks had fully automatic weapons and used them to great affect.
    LOTS of casualties as well.
    Actually, there were only two casualties - the two perps. Still a valid counter-point to the post you were replying to though.
    You meant deaths instead of casualties, right? There were 18 additional people injured that day, and injuries count as casualties. That brings up another point the antigunners never seem to catch when they are trying to demonize the eeeeevil 'assault weapons'. The ammunition they're designed to fire, and that they're almost always loaded with, isn't designed to kill, and in most mass shootings they produce far more injuries than deaths. The average handgun is much deadlier than the so-called 'assault weapon'.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
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  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI .45 View Post
    Blowing the article off as just another op-ed piece is wrong as most of it is statement of fact with the concluding sentence being speculation.

    Dollar may be right but where have all of the terrorists been for the last 12 years? The US has incredibly porous borders but to date there has been virtually no outside terrorism on our soil. The amount of police weaponry build-up, military training tactics, and surprise take down raids far outweigh the current anti-terrorism requirements be they real or perceived. And, is any military force equipped to deal with al-qaeda style terrorism? The Russians, Coalition, and US forces haven't been up to the task so why would over armed domestic police realize a different outcome? The jury's out, but police militarization appears to be much more likely to be used to quell domestic uprisings than to counteract middle eastern terror tactics here in America.




    Hasn't the 30 year build-up in militarized policing been justified because criminals were ahead of police in the armament curve? To date, I know of no mass shooting where a true automatic weapon has been in possesson of the perp and the police arrive with M-4's; no criminal has instigated mayhem utilizing an MRAP - so, who is outgunned? The balance of power definitely favors the cops, and by a wide margin. As to a secret cabal plotting the mass takeover of the General Public: how many people would actually believe that such a thing could happen even if openly stated? The sheeple will never see a cause for concern!
    Im a sheep eh? If you say so, Id encourage you to trade out your tinfoil hat in for a premium grade lead hat, Im sure the CIA will be processing the brain transmitter and turn us all into mindless zombies. Fact of the matter is, would you as a civilian face an enemy with equal or greater weaponry? Im sure Id choose to have better weapons, vehicles and armor than the enemy. However, I dont see any conspiracy to overtake the general public at this point and time, generally there are some greater warning signs than purchasing "military grade vehicles." That being said, do you even know what makes the MRAP a military grade vehicle? Do you know the difference between a military and police grade MRAP? Military grade MRAPs are built to withstand heavy fire from "small arms" as well as under and over top explosions. SWAT teams often use military grade vehicle for the small arms protection as well as to transport an entire SWAT team to a scene. I highly doubt arming Police officers with M4s and MRAPs make them tools for a SHTF general public overthrow.
    I can tell you from experience, 95% of American soldiers will refuse orders for Martial Law, 95% of Police officers will do the same thing. You ask why? Martial Law on the General Public means, while theyre off duty, Martial Law applies to them and their families as well. For Martial Law, to really work, it would have to be a complete 100% foreign take over, why? Because again, if Martial law applies to the General Public, it applies to all of Government families and friends, further more, it would also apply to them as well. Military and the head of Government are in complete and total control. Something Police, Military and the Public do not agree with.
    Further more, a secret of the magnitude you speak of would be impossible to contain, especially for so long, it would have to be a swift overtake, something completely detached from our central Government. What would the purpose of a Martial law be? Can you think of one valid, true reason? Neither can I. Again, it would have to be foreign, again, something our military and Police would not support. Many Police and Military personnel state openly they stand with the public, so, I ask, whos the silly sheep now? I think youve seen too many movies, read too many comics and read too much into something thats not as deep as youd think.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Im a sheep eh? If you say so, Id encourage you to trade out your tinfoil hat in for a premium grade lead hat, Im sure the CIA will be processing the brain transmitter and turn us all into mindless zombies. Fact of the matter is, would you as a civilian face an enemy with equal or greater weaponry? Im sure Id choose to have better weapons, vehicles and armor than the enemy. However, I dont see any conspiracy to overtake the general public at this point and time, generally there are some greater warning signs than purchasing "military grade vehicles." That being said, do you even know what makes the MRAP a military grade vehicle? Do you know the difference between a military and police grade MRAP? Military grade MRAPs are built to withstand heavy fire from "small arms" as well as under and over top explosions. SWAT teams often use military grade vehicle for the small arms protection as well as to transport an entire SWAT team to a scene. I highly doubt arming Police officers with M4s and MRAPs make them tools for a SHTF general public overthrow.
    I can tell you from experience, 95% of American soldiers will refuse orders for Martial Law, 95% of Police officers will do the same thing. You ask why? Martial Law on the General Public means, while theyre off duty, Martial Law applies to them and their families as well. For Martial Law, to really work, it would have to be a complete 100% foreign take over, why? Because again, if Martial law applies to the General Public, it applies to all of Government families and friends, further more, it would also apply to them as well. Military and the head of Government are in complete and total control. Something Police, Military and the Public do not agree with.
    Further more, a secret of the magnitude you speak of would be impossible to contain, especially for so long, it would have to be a swift overtake, something completely detached from our central Government. What would the purpose of a Martial law be? Can you think of one valid, true reason? Neither can I. Again, it would have to be foreign, again, something our military and Police would not support. Many Police and Military personnel state openly they stand with the public, so, I ask, whos the silly sheep now? I think youve seen too many movies, read too many comics and read too much into something thats not as deep as youd think.
    Itstjs,
    - "Im a sheep eh"? - nowhere did I insinuate that YOU personally were a sheep(le) - I do stand by my statement that even when confronted with statement of fact, the uninformed will simply not believe or choose not to believe (i.e. "We are five days away from fundamentally changing the United States of America" - Barack Obama 2008) Statement of fact, but how many questioned what the change was going to be?
    - "Fact of the matter is, would you as a civilian face an enemy with equal or greater weaponry? Im sure Id choose to have better weapons, vehicles and armor than the enemy". Of course I would, but if ever needed I'm not going to have access to a MRAP just as no criminal has access to one for a street crime. Virtually all large city police forces, most sheriff depts., and many small town agencies have this type of equipment and I'm glad they do if genuinely needed for a major crime, riots, or terrorism. They do not need them to enforce FDA raids on small farms selling raw milk.
    - "That being said, do you even know what makes the MRAP a military grade vehicle? Do you know the difference between a military and police grade MRAP? Military grade MRAPs are built to withstand heavy fire from "small arms" as well as under and over top explosions." What does this have to do with the dialog and how does it matter? My point is the police have more than surpassed the criminal element with weapons and vehicles and the MRAP was simply an example.
    - "I can tell you from experience, 95% of American soldiers will refuse orders for Martial Law, 95% of Police officers will do the same thing. You ask why? Martial Law on the General Public means, while theyre off duty, Martial Law applies to them and their families as well. For Martial Law, to really work, it would have to be a complete 100% foreign take over, why? Because again, if Martial law applies to the General Public, it applies to all of Government families and friends, further more, it would also apply to them as well. Military and the head of Government are in complete and total control. Something Police, Military and the Public do not agree with." Are you able to cite your experience where 95% of military group personnel or a police force has refused orders? Please, an actual case and not some informal verbal survey amongst collegues. (I would refer you to the 1932 Bonus Army riots in Washington DC - the military followed orders and had no problem routing protesting WW1 vets over what was rightfully theirs. I would also encourage a read of Radley Balko's book, "The Rise of the Warrior Cop" where he cites instance after instance of various police departments violating citizens basic civil rights, outright lawlessness, and killing innocents. Why would these same police entities have any problem following orders that violated all the rights of a large group of Americans?) And... "enforcers" expect, and generally receive privileges for themselves and their families.
    - "Further more, a secret of the magnitude you speak of would be impossible to contain, especially for so long, it would have to be a swift overtake, something completely detached from our central Government. What would the purpose of a Martial law be? Can you think of one valid, true reason? Neither can I. Again, it would have to be foreign, again, something our military and Police would not support. Many Police and Military personnel state openly they stand with the public, so, I ask, whos the silly sheep now? I think youve seen too many movies, read too many comics and read too much into something thats not as deep as youd think". I don't see any secret and there doesn't have to be a reason, all the elements are in place for a complete withdrawal of all civil liberties; this has been building for years due to the folks not paying attention and the malfeasance of our leaders... the police are in a position and have the resources to quell most public protests or enforce government dictates. There are so many black swans on the horizon, it will only take one (such as a failure of the on-line monetary system, (e.g. credit cards, automatic payments & withdrawals, debit cards, SNAP cards...) to touch off large nationwide riots which if great enough will bring the army to bear.

    I'm not speculating that current events are leading up to martial law - but it is leading up to something - something not good for personal freedom and liberty.You need not agree at all, but calling LE agencies of all stripes purchasing billions of rounds of ammunition, police forces armed as well as combat shock troops, LEO's all but immune from any prosecution for egregious misdeeds, internal spying at all levels on everyone all the time, warrantless no-knock searches for the smallest infractions, unconstitutional check-points, hundreds of new laws every year... calling it all simply coincidence, tin foil hat conspiracies, or taking place decades in the future seems naive at best.
    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad.” – Aldous Huxley

  11. #20
    I read this story with great interest, and agree with most but not all of it. I do have a story to relate that maybe some you here can explain it to me, because it doesn`t make sense to me.

    I live in a small farm town in Idaho, Last summer a friend of mine was in the local hamburger joint and he told me that the place was filled with the local national guard troops, he didn`t think anything of it at the time. A few days later he was back in the same hamburger joint and the same group of national guard guys were there again, so he asked them what they were up to, and they told him that they were training with the local swat team to assist them if needed.

    So I don`t get it ?. I live in a small farm town with farm fields as far as you can see in any direction, and the national guard unit is stationed in my town. I work in another small farm town 18 miles from my small farm town, and the nearest larger city is 80 miles away, and Boise Idaho is about 250 miles away. There is nothing around here and there is no crime here, so why would the national guard need to be training with the swat team to assist them ?.

    It really has me scratching my head and wondering.

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