Police right in shooting Keith Lamont Scott - Page 6
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Thread: Police right in shooting Keith Lamont Scott

  1. Wow, there it is. You should have started with that. Cops are human beings and just because a cop does his job makes him a bully. Your priceless, I told you that I have stopped a stolen car and made the driver believe that I stopped them for other reasons because my backup was 20 miles away. It's called diffusing the driver. You were not clear when you talked about Yanez excuse until I mentioned it using traffic stop instead of Officer Yanez. My bad but that doesn't make it a lie, that called misspeaking. You like twisting words to fit your agenda. I will say I've been called many things but never a bully. If anything I'm too nice to be a cop. At least that's what my boss has said many times. I truly hope that you have a great night. Not all Cops are bullies, though I have met a few. This was fun I like a good debate.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    Understood, you have zero interest in this:



    Have you any explanation for those shootings or is it just "**** happens" and "comply or die"?
    You kidding right, I keep telling you that cops make mistakes and so do citizens, it is unfortunate that so many end in tragedy as we have seen in the last few months. I do believe that it may be a training issue in some cases, but overall it's complacency. Everyone knows that is a problem over time. Problems can also point to a lack of respect on both side. It doesn't take long for Cops to overreact to anyone who is non-complient. So I do agree with some of your points and wish that I had an answer that would help people understand why cops react they way they do, or why people decide is a good idea to fight the police. I may not agree with everything you say but I would not call you a lier. Not everyone thinks the same, it we did than we would not have crime or war.

    I hear both side and your not wrong when you say Yanez should have completed a felony stop, he was not alone at the time. Do I believe that that any of the subjects that were shot deserve it, no. I do know this if he did have gun on his lap on top of his wallet, why would he move his hand towards he wallet. If he had told the officer he had a gun it was his responsibility to inform police and tell them where it is. If he had Yanez would not have told him to get his license. As far as the passenger goes all I was saying is that the video started after the shooting. Most videos start as the cops pull them out. Not trying to imply anything but that is my experience with video. I hope this clears things up for you. I wasn't trying to change your words, I'm not computer wise so I was going by memory. Be well, great debate. Good night sir.

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  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmac2016 View Post
    Wow, there it is. You should have started with that. Cops are human beings and just because a cop does his job makes him a bully. Your priceless, I told you that I have stopped a stolen car and made the driver believe that I stopped them for other reasons because my backup was 20 miles away. It's called diffusing the driver. You were not clear when you talked about Yanez excuse until I mentioned it using traffic stop instead of Officer Yanez. My bad but that doesn't make it a lie, that called misspeaking. You like twisting words to fit your agenda. I will say I've been called many things but never a bully. If anything I'm too nice to be a cop. At least that's what my boss has said many times. I truly hope that you have a great night. Not all Cops are bullies, though I have met a few. This was fun I like a good debate.
    I have been simply just quoting and explaining over and over again my post #23 on this issue. We are at post #51. Glad you finally caught up. I haven't twisted anything. You may just have misunderstood what I meant. It happens.

    As I said before:

    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    PS: I regularly train with current and retired police officers and these discussions come up quite often. Veteran officers understand the difference between a justified shooting and a charlie foxtrot.
    The common conclusion on a number of these shootings is that they turned out to be a charlie foxtrot because of the lack of training that caused ill-advised decisions.

    • Charles Kinsey: Poor marksmanship is just that, piss-poor training, especially when the situation warranted no shooting whatsoever. A mentally ill person who is not an imminent threat and is not complying with orders simply does not become target practice. Missing the intended target and hitting the caretaker is just the icing on the cake for this CF.
    • Philando Castile: No police officer in their right mind simply walks up to the driver-side window of an armed robbery suspect. So many officers have been wounded or killed doing that. A few officers, such as Yanez, have inadvertently wounded or killed the wrong person doing that. Philando Castile was innocent, a legal gun carrier and killed due to piss-poor procedure by the officer.
    • Tamir Rice: No police officer in their right mind drives up to a suspect of a man with a gun call at 10 feet distance. There is zero officer safety. If the suspects makes any move, the officer has to fire his weapon. The officer is setup for either being killed or prosecuted. Tamir Rice had a gun (real or not does not make any difference). The responding officers set themselves up to shoot and kill Rice with no other alternative.
    • In my area: No police officer in their right mind jumps on the truck bed of a fleeing suspected drunk driver. That's just suicide a la Lethal Weapon. The officer could have been easily killed, instead he killed the drunk driver. Joshua Grubb was killed by Officer Tyrel Lorenz because Officer Lorenz watched too many movies and didn't care about anyone's safety.

    There is a reason why I mentioned those 4 cases in my post #13. I discussed them with the guys I train with. My post #2, specifically the part in bold, was based on that discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    Whether a police shooting was justified depends entirely on the circumstances of the shooting and not on the run-ins with the law of the person shot that the shooting officers din't know about at the time of the shooting. While these prior run-ins may explain the behavior of the person shot, they do not explain the behavior of the person doing the shooting.

    Your post is mixing the evidence from the scene that relates to the circumstances of the shooting with the classical smear campaign stuff that Bob Owens from Bearing Arms regularly does, also known as, he had it coming.

    The evidence is pointing toward that the shooting was justified, given the current "comply or die" laws. LEOs far too often put themselves into a situation where they have no other option than to shoot as directed by SOP.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmac2016 View Post
    You kidding right, I keep telling you that cops make mistakes and so do citizens, it is unfortunate that so many end in tragedy as we have seen in the last few months. I do believe that it may be a training issue in some cases, but overall it's complacency. Everyone knows that is a problem over time. Problems can also point to a lack of respect on both side. It doesn't take long for Cops to overreact to anyone who is non-complient. So I do agree with some of your points and wish that I had an answer that would help people understand why cops react they way they do, or why people decide is a good idea to fight the police. I may not agree with everything you say but I would not call you a lier. Not everyone thinks the same, it we did than we would not have crime or war.

    I hear both side and your not wrong when you say Yanez should have completed a felony stop, he was not alone at the time. Do I believe that that any of the subjects that were shot deserve it, no. I do know this if he did have gun on his lap on top of his wallet, why would he move his hand towards he wallet. If he had told the officer he had a gun it was his responsibility to inform police and tell them where it is. If he had Yanez would not have told him to get his license. As far as the passenger goes all I was saying is that the video started after the shooting. Most videos start as the cops pull them out. Not trying to imply anything but that is my experience with video. I hope this clears things up for you. I wasn't trying to change your words, I'm not computer wise so I was going by memory. Be well, great debate. Good night sir.
    I was just replying based on your comment that implied that you seem to have this opinion:

    Quote Originally Posted by trmac2016 View Post
    You clearly don't want to understand my side either so I guess we are even, it is your opinion that they are acting on piss poor training.
    I was surprised about that post. You had ample opportunity to explain your position better. Read my post above.

  6. Cops don't always think before they act hence jumping on a moving vehicle, that is either really heroic or stupid. And I reacted to being called a lier and missed the point. Never said cops are all in control of their impulses. No more than any other person that does a job where they run towards the gun fire, burning buildings/cars and stop random car in the middle of nowhere or inner city. These are not normal people. You've trained with them so you know what I'm talking about. Cops see people at their worst and sometimes things going wrong. Do we need to weed out the bullies? Yes as soon as they show their hand. I look forward to debating other topics in the future. Good night.

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  7. when you disobey an officer of the law. threaten them. you go down. its simple

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmac2016 View Post
    Cops are human beings
    So are James Holmes and Abu Bakr al Baghdadi.

    Being a human being doesn't guarantee that you're a decent human being.

    Anthony Abbate was a cop (and at least arguably) a human being when he tried to stomp barmaid Karolina Obyrcka to death for refusing to serve him when drunk.

    His friends whom he enlisted to intimidate the victim, her employer, co-workers and witnesses were also cops (and at least arguably) human beings.

    Do you consider him and them DECENT human beings?

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmac2016 View Post
    I guess if everyone was perfect we would not be talking about this. Again it would be great it cops were robots but their not their humans with feeling, families and put their lives on the line everyday at lower pay then the trashman. All I can say is if people would just comply with police commands or simply stop breaking the law. If that would happen training wouldn't be an issue.
    With what police commands did James Blake NOT comply?

    With what police commands did Akai Gurley NOT comply?

    With what police commands did Charles Kinsey NOT comply?

    With what police commands did this man NOT comply?


  10. #59
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    There are evil bad cops but that doesn't make all cops evil.

    There are heroic good cops but that doesn't make all cops heroic.

    The bad cops need to be seriously dealt with.

    The good cops should never be lumped in with or condemned with the bad cops.

  11. Well let us look at this incident closer. This trooper had the same thing happen to him in 5 points and that individual came out with a gun. This one here he was fired and convicted for attempted murder. I am glad that the young man who was shot is ok now. I am also glad that the trooper is not longer a cop.

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