Here we go again with the traffic stop....thanks Luke! - Page 3
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Thread: Here we go again with the traffic stop....thanks Luke!

  1. Requiring by "law" to inform is unconstitutional.... CONVICTED FELONS have more "rights" than a CCP person does in those states...

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by John Caparatta View Post
    It's cute that some of you believe that cops won't stop you if you're "obeying" all traffic laws. Tragic, but cute.
    Preach it brother! They wont listen, but at least you and I have enough brains to know the truth...

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Caparatta View Post
    It's cute that some of you believe that cops won't stop you if you're "obeying" all traffic laws. Tragic, but cute.
    Anybody who believes that needs to be in a group home more than that autistic young man whom the North Miami PD tried to murder.

    That having been said, it'll certainly cut down on their opportunities for fishing expeditions.

    As I've said repeatedly, here and elsewhere, I want NOTHING to do with the police, EVER.

    To that end, I try to avoid people, places and activities which invite undue attention from police.

    Is that a GUARANTEE? No.

    Does it lessen then odds? Absolutely.

    It also creates both reasonable doubt and a minefield for the "risk taking" cop. It raises exponentially, the opportunities to catch him in a lie, and to examine his past behavior. You should have no doubt that my lawyer will go through his personnel file like the Red Army through East Prussia.

  5. To start I'll say there is No Duty to Inform in my state of Pennsylvania. I got pulled over a couple of days ago and handed the officer my DL, LTC and military id. The officer was nice and didnt give me a ticket. We talked a bit about carrying and guns and such during which he mentioned something thats been bothering me a bit since. He said my home state can now see right away if someone has a license to carry and he wouldve given me a (traffic) ticket if I hadnt had informed him.

    I mentioned this on an FB group which turned into a big debate on whether or not to inform an officer which really was getting a bit far from what actually bothered me about this. Ticketed or not aside for the moment, what really bothers me is the fact that they can see this info in the first place! Access to this info could lead to discriminatory profiling and bias treatment of citizens before the officer even approaches your car.

    I have a friend who is awaiting trial now for driving into neighboring New Jersey with her EDC in the trunk of the car. The officer gave a BS excuse for wanting to search her car and when she refused they detained her until getting a warrant. Mind you she wasnt even pulled over for a traffic violation when this occurred. To me the only reason he had for all of this was that he could somehow access such info

  6. Quote Originally Posted by PhillySoldier View Post
    To start I'll say there is No Duty to Inform in my state of Pennsylvania. I got pulled over a couple of days ago and handed the officer my DL, LTC and military id. The officer was nice and didnt give me a ticket. We talked a bit about carrying and guns and such during which he mentioned something thats been bothering me a bit since. He said my home state can now see right away if someone has a license to carry and he wouldve given me a (traffic) ticket if I hadnt had informed him.

    I mentioned this on an FB group which turned into a big debate on whether or not to inform an officer which really was getting a bit far from what actually bothered me about this. Ticketed or not aside for the moment, what really bothers me is the fact that they can see this info in the first place! Access to this info could lead to discriminatory profiling and bias treatment of citizens before the officer even approaches your car.

    I have a friend who is awaiting trial now for driving into neighboring New Jersey with her EDC in the trunk of the car. The officer gave a BS excuse for wanting to search her car and when she refused they detained her until getting a warrant. Mind you she wasnt even pulled over for a traffic violation when this occurred. To me the only reason he had for all of this was that he could somehow access such info
    Amazing, isn't it? The cop gets information from the state which tells them that the subject has paid the state and given their fingerprints for a background check which has come back clean and because of that it makes them MORE suspicious if you don't lick their boots and hand over your permit at first contact. Here's my feeling. The safest place for myself, the cop, and bystanders for my gun to be is in the holster not being touched by anyone. The best chances of my gun staying in the holster not being touched by anyone is if I keep my mouth shut about it. Telling the cop about it up front only increases the chance they are going to want to fondle me and my gun needlessly, placing us all at risk from a negligent discharge, and I will not extend that invitation to them unless required to do so by law.

    Once they find out about my carry license (and every state has the ability to provide that info to their own LEO and most can provide it to out of state LEO through a system called NLETS) from the government, then the officer has no legitimate reason for increased concern. To a reasonable person, their suspicion level should go DOWN because of the reason I gave above. So, if something should happen and something needs to go to court then that is the question that will be asked of the officer and given to the judge/jury to ponder. When a reasonable person receives information from the government that a subject has voluntarily submitted to a background check, given their fingerprints, and that background check comes back clean - what would the reasonable response be? More suspicion?

    Also, when you hand the officer your driver's license, what do they do with it? They call in to make sure it is valid. Why? Because you could just as easily have handed them a fake, suspended or revoked license. It's the same with a carry license/permit. Just because you had the cop what looks like one does not mean that it is real and valid. So that is why I will just wait for the state to them about my license. Because then they know that it is real and valid and I have not offered them an invitation to take my gun until they can verify the status of my license - you know for officer safety, of course.

    If the cop wants to know if I have a gun or other weapon in the car, all they have to do is ask.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. Here's a thought for anyone who thinks not violating any laws will keep them from getting pulled over, wrong. Believe me if johnny law wants to pull you over he will find an excuse like crossing the centerline stripes ect. Most won't especially for silly tickets though. More often they are looking for something more.
    This is the new method the tweakers use to make meth. They drive around the back roads and make it in 2 liter soda bottles in their car, shake n bake I think the name is. That keeps them safe from neighbors flipping them in and the all to common fire in the shed / garage you see in the papers.
    This has been going on for some years now and all the cops know about it which is probably why they seem to drive those back roads more than before. Particularly if you drive an older car don't be surprised if they take an interest in you and if you look sort of scruffy even more so. It's lo something to be aware of if you pick up roadside bottles and such . Don't pick up any swelled ones lest you possibly get an acid bath if it bursts. They chuck the evidence if they see or think they see a cop car. Those back roads aren't what they used to be. So you can see here this is one very real reason to have a cop interaction while doing nothing wrong which could lead to a CC inform issue.


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  8. Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    If there is a duty to inform law in effect, and you don't inform the cop, then when/if he/she sees your gun they will draw on you, and you might even get shot if you don't exactly comply with instructions next.

    Best thing is always to obey the law -- stupid law or not.

    Stupid laws come from stupid legislators who were elected by stupid people.


    Calif, NYS, Mass., NJ, and certain cities like Chicago and DC are loaded with stupid people and stupid laws like this.
    You sir, just won the internet.

    I spent over 25 years as an officer with a city agency here in AZ. My career spanned the time when Arizona went from permitless open carry, to concealed carry with a permit, to finally Constitutional Carry, which I personally applaud.

    Do I think that you should be legally compelled to inform an officer? Meh, probably not. Mainly because I come from Arizona, and I just assumed everyone who wasn't driving a VW Beetle or Prius with rainbow stickers or Obama or Hillary for prez-o-dent bumper stickers had a gun in the car. Did I get worked up about it? No...why get worked up? In most cases, I already knew if you were a chud or a demonstrably solid citizen before I approached the car...computer technology...not ESP.

    If, when I asked you if you were armed and you told me yes, and where it was my answer was "Thanks for letting me know. Just keep your hands away from it, and we won't have to make noise and do paperwork, okay?"....and I always asked because I didn't want to be the poor bastard who filled you full of 45 hollowpoints because you had a pistol in your glove compartment, sitting on top of your registration and insurance card, and didn't tell me about it and it looked a LOT like you were going for the gun instead of your documents even after I told you to STOP!.

    Yeah, almost happened one night and the goober driving the car almost got dead of stupid, but thank GOD he stopped before I addressed him with the muzzle of my Glock. His gun was sitting on top of his documents and he put his hand on the grip frame to move the gun to get his docs. Situationally....not a good idea. Thank God for BOTH of us that it worked out.

    On the other hand...

    If I pulled someone over and they said (as I advocate)..."I just want to let you know that I have my permit, and I am carrying, it's on my _______", my answer was "Cool, thanks for letting me know. I don't need to see it, so leave it where it is. The reason why I pulled you over is _______________, may I have your license, registration, and proof of insurance?".

    Go back to MDT, if they are a solid citizen with a lack of PD contact (bad behavior, or civil traffic in a while), then I went back and said "Okay, Christmas is early, I am just giving you a warning. Slow it down, get it fixed (whatever was appropriate to the moment), and be good for the next six months because the next officer will have to issue you a citation. Have a nice evening".

    Traffic was not my bailiwick, I worked a different division, but once in a while someone did something to get my attention and make me say "They really want to talk to me"...like speeding in a school zone which is a BIG no-no here in AZ, but mainly it was a case of suspected DUI that caught my attention. If the driver was clearly not impaired, then I damned sure wasn't going to hang paper on a decent dude "just because I could". I cut breaks when I was able, it made my job easier not to be a jerk (like my brother who works motors in another city and gets a stiffy when he can write a ticket), and usually getting a warning was more than enough to modify behavior. Win win.

    NOTE: All of this was predicated on the fact that the driver was NOT being a d-bag.

    On the other hand...I personally LIKED and appreciated it when someone informed me. It usually meant that they had nothing else to hide, and were trying to be helpful. I rarely, and I mean RARELY ever took possession of someone's gun, but it was always determined by the totality of the circumstances. There had to be a reason for me to do it because any extra handling of a loaded gun when it is not immediately necessary is a recipe for disaster.

    Sadly, and this is where we find ourselves...officers are no longer being trained as "peace officers", but rather "law enforcement" officers and they are losing discretion on the street. Some departments have instituted "must cite" policies and the men and women on the street are in a limbo between trying to do the job the right way with common sense, and having to walk the tightrope of policy made by lardbottoms who haven't been off a desk in a decade.

    Do I advocate informing an officer? Yes...for the reasons above, but it's preference. If more people acted like adults....ahhh...lamentations.

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