Michigan here, Im being forced to open carry!! - Page 3
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Thread: Michigan here, Im being forced to open carry!!

  1. Educate yourself on when and where you can Open Carry and then do so, everywhere it is legal.

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  3. #22
    You are correct the establishment has to make 75% of its money from other then beer, wine, and liquor. Also I was told that the suspension must not be for certain things like points or any kind of conviction. mine was suspended for non payment of a ticket (thanks EX WIFE) and i was told that i was fine to obtain my shall issue cpl! that came from a friend that sits on the state gun board! So don't give up so easy! Plus you have the right to appeal and go before the gun board and explain your suspension and in all likely hood you should stand a fairly good chance at convincing the board to grant your cpl!
    Guns don't kill people, irresponsible, uneducated people kill!

  4. #23
    Guys and Ladies, while I do not know the EXACT wording in your areas as to carrying open or concealed, I do know that a lot of states permits say HANDGUN CARRY PERMIT, and does not specify open or concealed, .........now our instructors stated several times during the training class although the permit does not specify, you should keep your weapon concealed 100% of the time unless its needed, and also to take a little time being sure it is concealed, because doing this will sooner or later save you a lot of pain in the ass, and I know about Wally World and open carrying IMHO that is just being stupid, no matter what the law says, because a instince like this has happened several times, you walk into wall mart with your 45 straped to your hip 'fully leagal" and old mrs busy body sees you and gets excited fumbles with her phone gets more excited, finaly calls 911 the law shows up, and trust me they will show up if called, you get a cop that had a bad day, shakes you down if your lucky you may keep your gun and go home, if your not lucky, you better have a good lawyer, and maybe doctor

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
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    699
    Quote Originally Posted by BradAnderson View Post
    Actually that's what we have the CONSTITUTION for, i.e. so states can't do as they please; also people in states can be BORN there rather then chose.
    Actually the US Constitution is a guideline for the Federal government in it's actions towards the states and foreign policy, not a guideline for the states.

    Each state has it's own Constitution for it's citizens, the one YOU have the power to change if you don't agree with it, or to move to another state.

    The hierarchy of power is the People first, then the States and then the Federal Government. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking it's the other way.

    Read your historical documents, screw what you've heard or learned in school, verify the facts for yourself.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
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    699
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketgeezer View Post
    Guys and Ladies, while I do not know the EXACT wording in your areas as to carrying open or concealed, I do know that a lot of states permits say HANDGUN CARRY PERMIT, and does not specify open or concealed, .........now our instructors stated several times during the training class although the permit does not specify, you should keep your weapon concealed 100% of the time unless its needed, and also to take a little time being sure it is concealed, because doing this will sooner or later save you a lot of pain in the ass, and I know about Wally World and open carrying IMHO that is just being stupid, no matter what the law says, because a instince like this has happened several times, you walk into wall mart with your 45 straped to your hip 'fully leagal" and old mrs busy body sees you and gets excited fumbles with her phone gets more excited, finaly calls 911 the law shows up, and trust me they will show up if called, you get a cop that had a bad day, shakes you down if your lucky you may keep your gun and go home, if your not lucky, you better have a good lawyer, and maybe doctor
    This is where it pays to be familiar with the exact definitions of your local laws.

    When an individual is educated on and employs their rights professionally. Knows the definitions for such ridiculous charges as disorderly conduct, inciting a riot or whatever BS offense that a LEO may try to come up with to harass or charge you, you stand on solid legal ground.

    LEO will listen when you start citing statutes numbers from your local jurisdiction, they are unaccustomed to people knowing their rights and especially those that can cite from memory the laws that they themselves don't always fully understand. They will confer with a supervisor and if you are in the right, which you should be, your going home with your gun.

    Worst case scenario, they falsely arrest you, you sue and departmental policy changes from the ensuing court case.

    Don't be afraid to exercise your rights as per your local Constitution, or quite frankly, you don't deserve them.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    Actually the US Constitution is a guideline for the Federal government in it's actions towards the states and foreign policy, not a guideline for the states.

    Each state has it's own Constitution for it's citizens, the one YOU have the power to change if you don't agree with it, or to move to another state.

    The hierarchy of power is the People first, then the States and then the Federal Government. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking it's the other way.

    Read your historical documents, screw what you've heard or learned in school, verify the facts for yourself.
    The Constitution says different:

    Article VI.
    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

    Amendment 10
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
    Hence, we see that the Constitution delegates certain powers to the federal govenrment, and prohibits these and certain others to the states.

    It is likewise not a "guideline," it is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, along with all laws wruitten pusuant to it-- and the judges in every state are bound thereby, any thing in the laws or Constitutions of any state notwithstanding; and the officials of every state are likewise bound by oath or affirmation to support it.

    Finally, "The People" of whom you speak, have NO powe--, other than to elect congressional officials for their respective state; and these officials are likewise bound by the Constitution, as stated above.. but THEY decide what the Constitution means.

    That's means that "the people" have about as much "power" as a slave choosing his master; regardless of his choice, he's still a slave.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    756
    Id see about getting the law violation against you removed from your record, or at least see if you can meet with the gun board and get approved, you can always appeal a denial.
    As for being in Detroit, I agree, if you carried, you might have been able to defend yourself, then again, who knows. Open carry is kinda a touchy subject, alot of unneeded attention is drawn to you, both by LEO and civilians. But then again, it is legal. I only open carry when I absolutely have to. But hey, OC if you want, but Id get an appeal on the CC issue. Removing a weapon from the trunk every time you get out of car is a bit of an annoyance, and again, draws more attention to you. If an LEO sees you, he could mistakenly think youre there to cause trouble and hold you at gun point, and/or inspect the way you were transporting it, and then slap you with more law violations.
    Just some things to think about. Hope all goes well.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  9. Don't forget that you have to transport it UNLOADED, as well as in the trunk of the car; meanwhile the dork with the CPL can have it holstered right with him while he's driving the car!

    And you're right about LEO's harassing you; for example, the "excusionary rule" was written because it's no deterrent to sue the cops, to stop them from harassing searches of people. No, to stop harassment, legislators had to get ALL evidence gained from such searches THROWN OUT ENTIRELY. (This is also another reason why CPL laws should be thrown out as well-- just like evidence obtained from harassing searches-- i.e. since CPL lawas are likewise an exposure to undue public scrutiny which attracts police harassment, searches and seizures).

    So of course a lawsuit won't deter the cops from harassing you if you're carrying openly.

    However again, the guidelines ALWAYS apply:
    If a cop says ANYTHING to you, your response should be the same: "Am I being detained?"
    if he says "no," WALK AWAY.
    If he says "yes," say "then I want to talk to my lawyer. I have nothing further to say." (Then call your lawyer as soon as given a chance; If you don't have a regular lawyer, GET one. TODAY.)
    That's IT IT.
    (Meanwhile if he draws his gun on you, then you ARE being detained, so there's no need to ask).

    Remember: the police are NOT your friends; the most famous lie is "I'm from your government, and I'm here to help you." DO NOT try to "be cooperative," they'll just use it against you.
    You have NOTHING TO GAIN by talking to police, and EVERYTHING TO LOSE; in fact they WANT you to talk, even to lecture or insult them etc. since again, like the saying goes: "anything you say can and will be used against you." Your first and best defense against police is your SILENCE-- and if you talk, you're throwing it away.

    By law, Police are ALLOWED to ask you questions-- and they are NOT REQUIRED to inform you of your right to refuse to anwer.

    But if you ASK whether you're being detained, then they ARE required to to tell you yes or no.
    And if they DO say you're being detained, then you DO have the right remain silent and talk to a lawyer-- and they can't ask you ANY questions after that. If they do, just say "I have nothing to say until I talk to my lawyer."

    And if anyone thinks I'm being hard on police, and are one of these right-wing "blame the victim" nutjobs: well, then go ahead and talk to them, it's your funeral; again, I didn't invent the exclusionary rule. POLICE HARASSMENT did; a libertarian is a right-wing conservative who just got a cavity-search.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    756
    I think those are WORST case scenarios. Michigan cops are growing somewhat aware of the rights of OC people. I carry openly once in a while, actually was just at Meijers. I got a few odd looks, but aside from that, was pretty much ignored. Then again, Im pretty well groomed, [grooming is a major deterrent to getting any negative feed back from police or civilians] wasnt harassed once, nor were the police called for a MWAG
    Either way, be careful.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Lake Huron, Michigan
    Posts
    21
    Scarecrow is correct. If you have a cpl you can carry anyplace but a Bar this means TGI Fridays, Applebees, or anyplace that serves food or sells any thing else ie. Meijer, Walmart, Sears, Macy, party stores, bank ect . The place that you can not carry only sells liquor, the local watering hole.

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