Reload Rifle or Transition To Pistol
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Thread: Reload Rifle or Transition To Pistol

  1. #1

    Reload Rifle or Transition To Pistol

    We have been discussing the issues of "speed loading" the rifle here recently. It came up at the class in Houston. It was attended by several military veterans and their consensus was as mine - to retain the magazines lest you simply end up without them.

    The issue kept coming up so we set up a simple test. Two shooters would come up and fire three rounds (the rifle was only loaded with three). Upon the third round, they were to either transition to pistol or reload as directed. The objective was to see who would finish their job and fire the next shot (from pistol or rifle).

    Each man executed each maneuver, and with 22 students we saw 22 runs at transition versus reload. And in case anyone was wondering, there were plenty of competition shooters and 3-gun shooters there as well. Moreover, we had at least one redi-mag in evidence.

    Results - Transition to pistol beat the rifle reload fairly 100% of the time. the only time the reload beat the transition was if the pistol man screwed up on the draw.

    So there. How 'bout that.
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    Gabe Suarez

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  3. #2
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    range dependent

    It's great that you had current/former operators to test your theory. This is what I would like to see you try:

    Repeat this drill, moving an IDPA target back 7yd. each time.

    Find the critical distance where the rifle/carbine is still more effective.

    Report back. I look forward to your response.
    Legalize Freedom!

    building an AR on my blog

  4. #3
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    I've done both in my years through my various encounters. It all depends on the situation. If the target is within pistol distance, I'd transition to pistol. Targets at 20+ meters would likely be a "reload" situation.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  5. #4
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    Pardon me if I sound illiterate, but by reloading, do you mean dropping the magazine of the rifle and replacing it with another that already has ammo in it, or putting more ammo into the magazine you just emptied?
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Pardon me if I sound illiterate, but by reloading, do you mean dropping the magazine of the rifle and replacing it with another that already has ammo in it, or putting more ammo into the magazine you just emptied?
    I was talking about securing the empty mag and loading a new loaded magazine. Empties are usually reloaded during "down time". Trying to reload while being shot at isn't a very good place to be. You're in a lotta trouble if you find yourself needing to reload in the middle of a fire fight!


    gf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock Fan View Post
    I was talking about securing the empty mag and loading a new loaded magazine. Empties are usually reloaded during "down time". Trying to reload while being shot at isn't a very good place to be. You're in a lotta trouble if you find yourself needing to reload in the middle of a fire fight!


    gf
    Thanks for clearing that up. Seriously, I wasn't able to ascertain that from the information in the original post.
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

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    Lightbulb For me it is range dependant

    If the BG is less than 50M I am going for my sidearm. If the BG is greater than 50M or I have proper cover and a vantage point I am putting a new mag in my rifle. If the BG is at 1000M I am going 37 MOA up and 1/2 MOA LT to account for drop and spin drift.
    FESTUS
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    Hi, gabe!!

    GLAD TO SEE YOU HERE!!! same boris as on WT!!
    would you say this is the same idea as " the chicago reload" , as in the fastest reload is another weapon ? it looks like it to me. i borrowed your thread idea in off topic WOD 2009. i hope it was ok.
    Last edited by boris; 01-05-2009 at 08:40 PM.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    ...Results - Transition to pistol beat the rifle reload fairly 100% of the time. the only time the reload beat the transition was if the pistol man screwed up on the draw.
    100% the way we trained in CQB while in the Marines.
    INSTANTLY DEFAULT TO PISTOL.
    Less accurate fire, but will keep people from moving in on your position while you reload.

    One way we use to get insurgents or inexperienced fighters to show themselves was to fake a reload.
    Stop firing, look at the side of the rifle, even drop the mag into your off hand,
    Then snap it right back into place when the opposition started to move since they through they had 10 to 15 seconds before you were active again!

    *IF*...
    You are covered by partner, and not under heavy fire, reload the rifle since it simply has greater accuracy and stopping power,

    But if you are in the heat of a firefight, by all means default to pistol until you can reload.

    What happens many times in battle is everyone shoots at once (despite training to the contrary) and you all wind up reloading at the same time!
    SOMEONE, ANYONE should be laying down suppression fire, even if it's a handgun to keep enemy from moving on you during that reload cycle!

    I know of at least one instance where insurgents were counting shots (More or less) and made the mistake of moving against what they though were 'Rookie' troops when the fire stopped for reloading of two or three they could see happened all at once.
    They quickly found out that a Delta Drum was in operation, and they were COVERED.... last lesson many of them ever learned!

    Empty or not, take EVERY break in shooting to change mags!
    If you have fired even ONE round out of the mag, practice cover fire teamwork, one covers while the other reloads!

    Above all else, PRACTICE DEFAULT TO PISTOL!
    You never know when your rifle is going to fail, and your zone MUST be covered!

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