Michigan Open Carry Meeting Broken-up - Page 3
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Thread: Michigan Open Carry Meeting Broken-up

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock Fan View Post
    You have some valid points regarding the general public and their view of a OC rifle. Keep in mind that in many states, the law requires a citizen to be 21 to own a handgun. A rifle would be the only legal option for citizens between the ages of 18 - 20.

    I disagree that a rife is an "offensive" firearm. My primary SD firearm in my home is my Mossberg 500A. Many others have a similar mindset.

    One of the biggest problems with having a long gun in an urban environment is Hollywood and the media. There are a lot of media reports of "police respoded to a call of a man with an assault rifle in downtown ______ this afternoon". What they fail to report is that the man wasn't charged with a crime because he did nothing wrong. The media spins a story how they want the public to see it. If there is a follow-up story done, it's usually very low key, and if in print it's buried where it's rarely seen.

    As firearms owners we need to come up with a plan so we can work together without bashing one another. If we were all to unite and work towards a common goal, our efforts will be a lot more productive.

    gf
    I don't actually know of any state that restricts ownership to those 21 and over, but there is the federal rule you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. And many of the states with CCW laws, require you have to be 21+ to get a CCW permit/license. Michigan is that way, however, you can OC in Michigan at 18.

    And if rifles aren't offensive in nature, why does the military use them for offensive combat? ;) Yes, you can use any firearm as a defensive weapon. But if I'm carrying a weapon with an effective range in excess of 100 meters, that's offensive to me.

    Honestly, I still don't see the need to carry a rifle in an urban environment for self defense, at least not in Michigan.

    Again, that's my opinion, and everyone else's may be different. But at this stage in the "game" of trying to get OC seen as a "normal, everyday thing," I don't think it's too smart to try pushing the envelope at this stage.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  2.   
  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    I don't actually know of any state that restricts ownership to those 21 and over, but there is the federal rule you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. And many of the states with CCW laws, require you have to be 21+ to get a CCW permit/license. Michigan is that way, however, you can OC in Michigan at 18.

    And if rifles aren't offensive in nature, why does the military use them for offensive combat? ;) Yes, you can use any firearm as a defensive weapon. But if I'm carrying a weapon with an effective range in excess of 100 meters, that's offensive to me.
    Honestly, I still don't see the need to carry a rifle in an urban environment for self defense, at least not in Michigan.

    Again, that's my opinion, and everyone else's may be different. But at this stage in the "game" of trying to get OC seen as a "normal, everyday thing," I don't think it's too smart to try pushing the envelope at this stage.
    This is one of the arguments that the media and anti-gun groups often use. The military uses "Assault Rifles", so they're specifically designed for "combat". Forget about the 1,000s' of "Assault Rifles" that are owned by ordinary citizens who use them for lawful purposes such as recreation, target shooting or hunting. What is the definition of an "Assault Rifle"? Some may argue that by definition a Civil War Musket would be considered an "Assault Rifle". Suppose the individual in question had OC'd a musket rather than an AR 15, would the reaction have been any different? Many modern handguns are a lot more accurate and have a much better range than a Civil War era musket.

    The military issued a few different verisons of the 1911 pistol, and currently issues the Beretta 92F. Does this make those two models "offensive"? Many of the other popular pistols have been or are currently used by various militaries around the world. Does that make them "offensive"? My point is that rather than buying in to the "anti-gun hype" of "it has a effective range of ______ meters, and can kill many people", or "it has a magazine capacity of _______. There's no reason for an ordinary citizen to have a magazine capacity that high unless they're up to no good", why not work to educate others of what's legal and what's not. Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree with an individual OCing a long gun. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and rather than publically condemn it, simply state something like "It's not something I would do, however the individual isn't doing anyting illegal." We need to show unity among the firearms community. We have too much internal BS going on. You have groups of people who strongly believe in CC and openly bash OC. There are others that OC who bash CC. Then there are other groups who have their own political agendas. I'm one who strongly believes in the 2A. I don't agree with what a lot of people are doing, however I have become a lot more careful about openly condemning their practices as long as they are complying with the law.




    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock Fan View Post
    This is one of the arguments that the media and anti-gun groups often use. The military uses "Assault Rifles", so they're specifically designed for "combat". Forget about the 1,000s' of "Assault Rifles" that are owned by ordinary citizens who use them for lawful purposes such as recreation, target shooting or hunting. What is the definition of an "Assault Rifle"? Some may argue that by definition a Civil War Musket would be considered an "Assault Rifle". Suppose the individual in question had OC'd a musket rather than an AR 15, would the reaction have been any different? Many modern handguns are a lot more accurate and have a much better range than a Civil War era musket.

    The military issued a few different verisons of the 1911 pistol, and currently issues the Beretta 92F. Does this make those two models "offensive"? Many of the other popular pistols have been or are currently used by various militaries around the world. Does that make them "offensive"? My point is that rather than buying in to the "anti-gun hype" of "it has a effective range of ______ meters, and can kill many people", or "it has a magazine capacity of _______. There's no reason for an ordinary citizen to have a magazine capacity that high unless they're up to no good", why not work to educate others of what's legal and what's not. Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion. I'm not saying you have to agree with an individual OCing a long gun. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and rather than publically condemn it, simply state something like "It's not something I would do, however the individual isn't doing anyting illegal." We need to show unity among the firearms community. We have too much internal BS going on. You have groups of people who strongly believe in CC and openly bash OC. There are others that OC who bash CC. Then there are other groups who have their own political agendas. I'm one who strongly believes in the 2A. I don't agree with what a lot of people are doing, however I have become a lot more careful about openly condemning their practices as long as they are complying with the law.




    gf
    I'm not "buying into the anti-gun hype." This is simply my opinion. EVEN if, OC were perfectly acceptable (as it should be), I would disagree with OCing a rifle in a city. Unless it's hunting season, and you're on your way to go hunting, and you stopped to get breakfast or something. And I don't care if it's an AR15, or a Springfield '03. For me, magazine capacity doesn't enter into it.

    So far, I don't think I've said what the guy at Ponderosa did, was illegal. I disagree with the practice. And as I said before, at this stage of the OC "argument," I think it was a bad choice.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Honestly, I still don't see the need to carry a rifle in an urban environment for self defense, at least not in Michigan.
    The way I figure, I can't imagine too many BGs messing with a guy who has an AR strapped to his back. That's a pretty effective defense. Much like the common argument for OCing a handgun, the effect is preventing an incident before it starts. Weather or not it takes longer to "draw" an AR, the visual effect, I would think, is quite effective.
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #25
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    My first encounter with open carry was in Phoenix AZ 1983. After an evening of reveling at the local watering hole a trip to the local donut house was in order.
    There, sitting in the back of the store was a gentleman, age 40. Reading a guns and ammo rag. It was held in a such a way, that we could all see. He was wearing a shoulder holster, containing, what appeared to be a S&W 29. (The dirty harry magnum.)
    This "gentleman" was wearing a brown t-shirt, that looked like it had not been though the wash in several days. Food and coffee stains covered the garment that was way to small to cover his enormous protruding belly. It was an example of why overweight people should not wear belly shirts.

    We were all laughing at this despicable example of the states open carry law. The counter man said "Bob" came in every midnight to eat donuts, drink coffee and read gun rags.

    The person portryaed in the OP who shows up to a open carry meeting with an AR 15 in Michigan; the kimberguy on the u-tube; the wing nut from Tennessee with the orange AK cammoand jack boots portrayed on an early posting; and of course Lee Harvey himself proudly holding anti-communist literature while doing the open carry convey an image I am not comfortable with.

    It may be lawful to open carry. It may be within your rights.

    The media jumps on these public displays every chance they get. They never portray it in a positive light.

    Think about it. Is this flamboyant behavior helping our cause or harming it?

    Don't bring negative attention down on all of us. If you choose to open carry do it in a positive manner. Please.



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  7. #26
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    I will not disagree that the person may have been within their 2A rights to OC the AR-15, however, the intent is to me would be hard to justify as for "self-defense".

    Unless a situation is drasticallly out of control, the carrying of a handgun is generally sufficient for self-defense and if one wants to keep an AR in the car as back-up so be it. However, slinging the AR on just to walk into a restaurant to me is simply showing off and trying get noticed.

    I have little respect for people trying to get noticed by any means. Responsible CCW's try to be noticed as little as possible. I do understand the OC movement and can support it, however, moves like this do not help it, so although I MUST defend the persons right to do it, I do not see it as beneficial to anyone.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by PX4storm View Post
    I believe my 2nd amendment Right is my CWP.
    In my humble opinion, I think this is part of our problem. The mentality that we have not had our rights infringed upon because we are able to carry a firearm after we have jumped through all the hoops that the state and Federal government requires, we have paid our tax to the state, and they give us permission to carry and then we consider it to be exercising our rights to carry when we carry concealed with permission from the state.

    If we truly had the RIGHT to keep and BEAR arms, we would not have to pay the state a tax, nor obtain the state's permission in order to bear our arms - we, and anyone legally in America and legal to possess firearms would be able to carry those firearms, in a manner ready for self defense (I do not consider unloaded, locked in a case, separate from ammo to be ready for self defense) without having to obtain state permission or pay the state a tax in order to do so.

  9. I worked at a Power Plant for 25 years and we all knew that an explosion was possible at any time. The unspoken word was and will always be "check it, check it and check it again" But with the greatest degree of safety these things will always happen. Hopefully someday this will not be so. My heart goes out to these men and women and their families. Remember they make lights possible.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by rsdonb View Post
    I worked at a Power Plant for 25 years and we all knew that an explosion was possible at any time. The unspoken word was and will always be "check it, check it and check it again" But with the greatest degree of safety these things will always happen. Hopefully someday this will not be so. My heart goes out to these men and women and their families. Remember they make lights possible.
    My heart goes out to the victims of the power plant explosion as well... but you might want to check which thread you posted this in....

  11. #30
    A lot of good points, and opinions here. So I'll throw mine in as well. NavyLT I believe you hit it right on the head there. We should not be offended, or feel any humility by any firearm in public, nor by the person carring it. Instead we should turn the tables around and make those who are not carrying, or those who try to paint gun ownership in a bad light, feel ashamed for having that mental outlook. For instance if the media reports something like the typical "oh my god its a gun" bs, we should all write in and tell them how incompetent and uneducated they're report was. Give them examples of what to report, like the police overreacted today when they sent 10 officers to remove a law abiding citizen from a public establishment who was there legally, and just so happened to have a firearm.

    Back to reality though, we are not sure what the entire details of the situation are either. Did the guy bring it in to the meeting because someone else there asked him to? Or maybe he was having problems with it, and one of the other members offered to help with the solution (a little weapons maint. over dinner, just dont lose that firing pin retaining pin). Or maybe it was new and he wanted to show it off. Or maybe it was hunting season there, and he was on his way out, or back in, and didnt feel comfortable leaving it in his vehical.

    If this guy was trying to make a statement then I think RugerP345's signature line states it best
    In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man -- brave, hated, and scorned. But when his cause succeeds, the timid join him. For then, it costs nothing to be a patriot. -- Mark Twain
    Maybe we should stop looking down at this guy, and maybe everyone at that meeting should have been packing a scarey looking black gun. We all should (as your states' infringement of the 2A law allows) sling a weapon where ever we go.

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