Whats the real Death Toll? - Page 2
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Thread: Whats the real Death Toll?

  1. #11
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    The real death toll is 1:1

    1 death for every birth.

    IMO the whole OP is self agrandizing crap don't know what else to say about it
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob16066 View Post
    Listen up. I have an honorable discharge and have carried my form DD-214 in my wallet for over 30 years. I'm retired now.

    I did my time and I didn't whine and cry the way I see the yute of today who think they're soooooo special because their mommy told them so.

    Big whoop. You served. So did I. So did a million other guys who are over it and getting on with their lives.

    I'm still not gonna kiss anyones butt because they need validation. The modern army are all volunteers and they have no one to blame but themselves if it wasn't the great adventure they had anticipated.

    For every one guy who came home messed up from the Wars to End All Wars there were Thousands who got along as best they could and didn't whine and cry and say poor me I suffered so much I need validation for my effort.

    I use the terms "they" and "them" to disassociate myself from a bunch of whiny ass crybabies who think I should: "Appreciate" their sacrifice because they're special and give them a participation trophy as they wave their "stress cards" in the air.

    Believe me: I feel for the guys who really suffered. But when it's over ya gotta get over it and continue to contribute to society just like millions have done since the dawn of time.

    One of my best friends ( Best man at my wedding, Platoon sgt, A.A. sponsor and all around father figure) was a Viet Nam Vet. He wasn't drug crazed, he wasn't Rambo and he only really talked about the war ( to me ) one time we were watching fireworks and he talked about seeing his best friend get blown in two by a mortar.

    Thing is he did his tour came back home and got on w/ life. Raised his kids, finished his military career as an SFC, got out and opened a chain of laundrymats.

    The only time I ever saw him react negatively WRT to his experience in the war was one day in formation; our CO was telling us how much better trained and better educated and better disciplined and all around smarter we were that they guys that went to Viet Nam.

    As the CO went on I watched my friend's (Only Nam vet in the company) neck and ears turn red his fists clenched and he began to shake he was that pissed but he never once broke his military bearing.

    (Not Bob16066) Get over yourself
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    IMO the whole OP is self agrandizing crap don't know what else to say about it.
    I agree totally.

  5. #14
    While I think that sometimes people do get a little carried away with the "thank a vet" concept, I also think that some here are rather enjoying their sense of superiority and their denial.

    I hear little whining from vets...and I have worked with other vets pretty much from the time I got out. The name I use online was the goal and motto of the group I worked with back in the '70s that developed the outline and proposal for the Vet Centers. I saw us lose over half the original team leaders in the centers to suicide...but I didn't see a lot of "whining". After college, I split my career between state police, federal marshall, state Dept. of Corrections and federal Bureau of Prisons. One thing I noticed in the "prison years" (working primarily with maximum security institutions housing people doing life or effective life sentences) was the incredible percentage that were vets...not just Vietnam vets, but Korean and even WWII...though that population was aging and dying quickly even in the late '70s and early '80s.

    Back in the '80s there was a study done by the Israelis on PTSD. Since they have a population that has pretty much all experienced war, they were sort of the ideal testing ground. What they found to be the percentage of combat vets to suffer some PTSD symptoms surprised even me...100%.

    I have to say I caught myself shaking my head when someone above spoke of a VN vet they knew who did not have problems and did not "whine"...and parenthetically cited that guy's accomplishments...including AA sponsor. The first vet I knew personally was a vet of Black Jack Pershing's foray into Mexico after Pancho Villa and later WWI. He was captured at Belleau Wood and escaped. He was also my Dad. He was a very succesful person financially...though he lost 2 companies in his career, he built 3. He was also a 50 year fifth a day alcoholic who died at the age of 68.

    Today, in my little town, I know 2 guys back from deployments with their local NG units who are young hard workers...both have wives and 1 has a small child...both are also unemployed, in part because many businesses here just will not hire guys who are in the NG and could be called up for another deployment...and will admit that as their reason (privately of course). I can remember applying for jobs to help pay the expenses while I went to college on VA Voc Rehab and learning that I needed to "make up" a history to cover the years of '66-'70 because employers who would hire "kill-crazy drug addict Vietnam vets" were few and far between.

    I'm not sure where those of you who speak of the "whining" hears it, but I am retired now and do volunteer work helping homeless and suffering vets of every war from Vietnam to the current actions and I see guys who suffer, but have held it together pretty well in general until the current economic situation and who hate the fact that they are having to ask for help...even from other veterans like myself who were luckier and more fortunate.

    To be honest, I am uncomfortable when others discover I am a combat vet and "thank" me for my service...especially when I consider that "my war", along with most since then were mistakes. However, to minimize the sacrifice of those who answered the call and, as a result, have had to fight harder every day of their lives since then is something I find reprehensible.

    [/rant]

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    While I think that sometimes people do get a little carried away with the "thank a vet" concept, I also think that some here are rather enjoying their sense of superiority and their denial.

    I hear little whining from vets...and I have worked with other vets pretty much from the time I got out. The name I use online was the goal and motto of the group I worked with back in the '70s that developed the outline and proposal for the Vet Centers. I saw us lose over half the original team leaders in the centers to suicide...but I didn't see a lot of "whining". After college, I split my career between state police, federal marshall, state Dept. of Corrections and federal Bureau of Prisons. One thing I noticed in the "prison years" (working primarily with maximum security institutions housing people doing life or effective life sentences) was the incredible percentage that were vets...not just Vietnam vets, but Korean and even WWII...though that population was aging and dying quickly even in the late '70s and early '80s.

    Back in the '80s there was a study done by the Israelis on PTSD. Since they have a population that has pretty much all experienced war, they were sort of the ideal testing ground. What they found to be the percentage of combat vets to suffer some PTSD symptoms surprised even me...100%.

    I have to say I caught myself shaking my head when someone above spoke of a VN vet they knew who did not have problems and did not "whine"...and parenthetically cited that guy's accomplishments...including AA sponsor. The first vet I knew personally was a vet of Black Jack Pershing's foray into Mexico after Pancho Villa and later WWI. He was captured at Belleau Wood and escaped. He was also my Dad. He was a very succesful person financially...though he lost 2 companies in his career, he built 3. He was also a 50 year fifth a day alcoholic who died at the age of 68.

    Today, in my little town, I know 2 guys back from deployments with their local NG units who are young hard workers...both have wives and 1 has a small child...both are also unemployed, in part because many businesses here just will not hire guys who are in the NG and could be called up for another deployment...and will admit that as their reason (privately of course). I can remember applying for jobs to help pay the expenses while I went to college on VA Voc Rehab and learning that I needed to "make up" a history to cover the years of '66-'70 because employers who would hire "kill-crazy drug addict Vietnam vets" were few and far between.

    I'm not sure where those of you who speak of the "whining" hears it, but I am retired now and do volunteer work helping homeless and suffering vets of every war from Vietnam to the current actions and I see guys who suffer, but have held it together pretty well in general until the current economic situation and who hate the fact that they are having to ask for help...even from other veterans like myself who were luckier and more fortunate.

    To be honest, I am uncomfortable when others discover I am a combat vet and "thank" me for my service...especially when I consider that "my war", along with most since then were mistakes. However, to minimize the sacrifice of those who answered the call and, as a result, have had to fight harder every day of their lives since then is something I find reprehensible.

    [/rant]
    Thank you for putting it in a way that I could not. I expect this kind of Crap from TREO, as I have sadly come to know him as an antagonist. But apparently the concept is lost on several others.

    The number of people that seem to "Speak From Experience" seems to be a system of internet tough guys with no real background in the matter.

    As far as the questions and statements about the freedoms that veterans have fought for, well, the simple answer is in keeping with those freedoms I have a right to tell people to STFU if I don't like what they are saying, just like they have a right to say it.

    And for the veterans I speak of, I was there on 9/11 in service to my country, as well as in several combat zones after. I lost a lot of friends who also chose to serve. But most of them to suicide or homelessness (Freezing to death etc.) after they returned home.

    While I personally believe that if you cant support our nations heroes, you should take your a$$ to Afghanistan for 6 months and see if you come back feeling the same way, I will also fight to the death to preserve your right to act like you do.

    But along the way, I will tell you exactly how I feel about it.

    P.S. Treo, when you do something for someone other than yourself, or even stop acting like you are 12, I will put stock in what you say. Until then have a nice life.
    .... And let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one. ~God
    http://www.cjdefense.com/ Wisconsin

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    even in the late '70s and early '80s.

    I have to say I caught myself shaking my head when someone above spoke of a VN vet they knew who did not have problems and did not "whine"...and parenthetically cited that guy's accomplishments...including AA sponsor.
    To be fair my compadre will tell you he was an alcoholic looooong before he ever set foot in the Republic of South Viet Nam. Just as I had been sober 9 years before desert Storm rolled around.

    That said, I too get uncomfortable when people I don't know "thank me for my service".

    I get even more uncomfortable when some anonymous internet poster tries to make more out of military service than it is.

    So again (not Pax) get over yourself
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    P.S. Treo, when you do something for someone other than yourself, or even stop acting like you are 12, I will put stock in what you say. Until then have a nice life.
    Glen Frey says it sooo much better than I ever could


    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  9. #18
    Like anything else, just be respectful. Like other groups of people, there will be those who succeed, those who grow, and those who get hurt, and those who fail.
    It is easy to take things for granted, so it is important to be mindful.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post

    That said, I too get uncomfortable when people I don't know "thank me for my service".

    I get even more uncomfortable when some anonymous internet poster tries to make more out of military service than it is.

    So again (not Pax) get over yourself
    I and a good many of the males in my family, going back as far as I can see, are veterans. Unless you have experience with battle, blood and mutilation that comes from living to kill people or be killed, then you have no point of reference. The best book I've ever read about the hell of this is "All Quiet On The Western Front."
    More than 40 years after I served, a young man thanked me last Veteran's Day. I didn't know what to think. I don't need the bulls**t validation or people praising me. But it took all that time for someone, anyone to say thanks.
    You can talk about cops, firefighters et al who serve in dangerous situations, and they do deserve respect. Everyone does. However, they can simply walk away if it gets the better of them - they are civilians. A soldier cannot - they call that deserting. And (in my time) you could be shot for it, or at least go to prison.
    For those young people (mostly men in my service) who gave some of the best years of their lives serving the country, did what they had to staying alive, I thank them right here on this forum. And praise and admire the fact they got home, even if missing some parts in the process.

    My Army service is the most wonderful thing I would never want to do again.

    The "...get over yourself..." crap is either from a nutcase or a wuss who never saw real fighting. Anyone who would say a thing like this deserves no respect.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by HDB View Post
    The "...get over yourself..." crap is either from a nutcase or a wuss who never saw real fighting. Anyone who would say a thing like this deserves no respect.
    I couldn't have said it better myself!

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