Obama "Strongly Objects" to Religious Liberty Amendment.... - Page 3
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Thread: Obama "Strongly Objects" to Religious Liberty Amendment....

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    I'm sorry, did you really just say, in your own words, that without religion you can't be a good person?

    Damn, I guess Mark Twain, Thomas Edison, Stephen Hawking, Sigmund Freud, Marie Curie, and thousands of other scientists, philanthropists, and all around good people must've actually been total ******** then.

    A moral compass in no way relies upon the belief in some mythical deity. Yes, some people get it from that, but to say that your faith is the only possible thing to base your morals on is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. The bible has some good lessons I it, I'm one of the few atheists I know that have read the thing from cover to cover. But IMO, believing everything you read in in the bible because somebody said to, is like believing everything you read on the Internet.

    BTW, I'm a French Model. Bon Jour.
    Gee, Creek, guess your cat whizzed in your Wheaties, huh? If a moral compass doesn't rely on a belief in something (God, tree, Mother Earth) on what is it based? A sense of something being bad or good has to be played off something other wise there would be neither sense. You can be an atheist if you would like. No pressure on you. Funny, anthropologists have proven, that even the most primitive of people, have a belief in a deity of sorts and have their morals from that belief. Guess they are not clouded with all the crap of modern society. They seemed to have had more intelligence than we gave them credit for. Maybe we could learn from them! I am glad you have read the Bible but your statement seems to indicate you don't take it as the inspired Word of God. Next time you read it, open your mind AND your heart. Maybe something will get through to you then. BTW, how goes your modeling career?

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post

    Gee, Creek, guess your cat whizzed in your Wheaties, huh? If a moral compass doesn't rely on a belief in something (God, tree, Mother Earth) on what is it based? A sense of something being bad or good has to be played off something other wise there would be neither sense. You can be an atheist if you would like. No pressure on you. Funny, anthropologists have proven, that even the most primitive of people, have a belief in a deity of sorts and have their morals from that belief. Guess they are not clouded with all the crap of modern society. They seemed to have had more intelligence than we gave them credit for. Maybe we could learn from them! I am glad you have read the Bible but your statement seems to indicate you don't take it as the inspired Word of God. Next time you read it, open your mind AND your heart. Maybe something will get through to you then. BTW, how goes your modeling career?
    Actually, I own neither a cat nor a box of Wheaties.

    But anywho, maybe something will get through to me then? So because I read the Bible I should immediately agree with and believe everything it says and accept it as the word of "God?" Does the same hold true if I read the Quran or Torah?

    Like I said, the bible has some good moral lessons in it. So do the other holy scriptures. But nothing the bible teaches, that is independent of religion (don't murder, steal, cheat on your wife, etc.) is anything that common sense doesn't already dictate to most people. But I guess that's where the argument ends, because I'm sure you believe common sense is gifted to you by god, where I believe it's predisposed human nature. The people that lack common sense and do things like go on shooting sprees are mentally challenged, not religiously challenged. The human mind is an amazing thing. I don't need a fairy tale character to tell me what's right and wrong.


    Oh, and thanks for asking. I actually decided to make a career change. I applied last night to be an astronaut and NASA accepted me this morning. I'm going Mars tomorrow.

  4. #23
    Congratulations on your acceptance by NASA and your trip to Mars. The trip should give you ample time for reading and contemplating the world's problems. I agree that scriptures contain many moral lessons but you have to be careful what scriptures you read. Or do you take literally the admonition from the Quran to slay those who will not convert to Islam? Common sense which you refer to is learned through experience. I doubt that very few people are endowed with it from birth. The Bible lays out God's plan for us all. Reading it does not necessarily impart instant wisdom on a person but, it does give one much food for thought and, through the use of common sense, the ability to discern the truth of what has been written. The prophecies in the Bible have proven themselves over many years with an accuracy that could only be supernatural and should be unquestionable to a thinking mind. What other book can make that claim? There is too much proof in the existence of God and his works for me to not believe and I do not understand those who will not believe. That, however, is their choice and no one else can make it for them. I believe the condition our world is in right now is because of our rejection of God and his laws. We are a dystopian society and are reaping the punishment of God for pushing Him away. Regardless of what one thinks, we have been warned and the Bible is bearing truth to that each and every day. By the way, on your trip to Mars, you may find further evidence that God is not a fairy tale character. Have a safe trip!

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    I believe the condition our world is in right now is because of our rejection of God and his laws. We are a dystopian society and are reaping the punishment of God for pushing Him away.
    You say that the condition of the world right is because of the rejection of God. I assume you mean the Christian god, and not allah, buddha, zeus, hades, or anyone of the several hundred other gods out there. Here in lies the problem with your statement. Only 33% of the world believes in your god. The other 66% believe in one or more of the other gods, or no god at all. And aside from the atheists, they all believe the same thing. That all the world's issues would be solved if everybody just accepted their god. So which one is it? Which of the several hundred religions do I believe in to save the world? I'm assuming you've never read the quran, torah, or any of the other holy scripts and studied their religion from an unbiased perspective. So how are you qualified to make an educated decision as to which one is correct? I'm willing to bet your parents were Christian too, and they took you to church as a kid or taught you their beliefs. You were never given a chance to be unbiased. Because you're a Christian, you believe all the bible's prophecies line up. And Muslims believe all the quran's prophecies lineup, and so on. Religion is all based on perspective. Everybody interprets their holy story a different way. If they didn't, there would be no subsects, no Shiites or Sunnis, no baptists, Protestants, etc. there would only be Christians, Muslims, etc.

    It's just my opinion that man created god and religion, and not the other way around. They needed something to believe in so they started interpreting everything they could, to fit what they wanted to believe. They needed to have some sense of security that there was something more, something after life, and something in control of it all. Everybody I talk to that is on the fence about religion and that eventually accept god, confirm this. They say the reason they accepted god is because they needed to know there was something more. My father-in-law tells me all the time how the closer I get to death the more I will believe in god. I have no way of explaining to him that that's not true. Ever heard the phrase "There's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole?" Well, I've been in in several "foxholes" while taking fire, and I'm still an atheist.

    But don't worry, if I see Jesus floating around up there on the way to Mars, you'll be the first to know.

  6. #25
    Creek: We will just have to agree to disagree on the subject of God. My belief came through a lot of study over a very long time. And, yes, through some foxhole experiences also which left the "pucker factor" quite high at the times of occurrence. I will just reiterate that the Bible is the only book I know of that has proved itself through it's prophecies being fulfilled. I place no stock in the Quran since it came along several hundred years after our religion, and the supposed author didn't seem to have the background to make him believable. One day we will all know the answer to it all. Some may be right and some may be wrong or, we could all be wrong. But I have found great comfort in my take on life and look forward to meeting my Lord when that day comes. And please do let me know if you see Jesus. I am quite sure He would be glad to meet you.

  7. #26
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    OG, atheists thrive by being a parasite on Christianity, and mostly target the shortcomings of individuals. Atheists are so opposed to anything linked to God that their hatred gets in the way of common sense. They believe that nothing, plus nothing, plus time, equals something. All lies begin with self-deceit. Satan (Devil) is self-deceived and the father of all lies, atheists being of their father the devil have the nearest alliance to Satan. The reason for their resistance and rage is because God's word is truth, and the truth terrifies them. Being of their father the Devil (like father like son) these "fools by choice" will never go away or shut up. They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. An awful state of regenerate men, they partake of the same principles and propensities which characterize the very nature and essence of their father the devil! When confronted with any debate atheists are only able to issue negative commentary because, once again, their hatred gets in the way of any common sense. Therefor, as we can see, they foolishly rage and there is no peace and quite.
    ~ GOD HATES RELIGION ~

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    OG, atheists thrive by being a parasite on Christianity, and mostly target the shortcomings of individuals. Atheists are so opposed to anything linked to God that their hatred gets in the way of common sense. They believe that nothing, plus nothing, plus time, equals something. All lies begin with self-deceit. Satan (Devil) is self-deceived and the father of all lies, atheists being of their father the devil have the nearest alliance to Satan. The reason for their resistance and rage is because God's word is truth, and the truth terrifies them. Being of their father the Devil (like father like son) these "fools by choice" will never go away or shut up. They have no religion of their own, so the sole purpose of their existence revolves around attacking the validity of the Holy Bible. An awful state of regenerate men, they partake of the same principles and propensities which characterize the very nature and essence of their father the devil! When confronted with any debate atheists are only able to issue negative commentary because, once again, their hatred gets in the way of any common sense. Therefor, as we can see, they foolishly rage and there is no peace and quite.

    Lmafo. I don't think I've ever been called the spawn of satan before by someone who actually believed it. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

    The truth terrifies us? For a belief set that's based strictly around empirical evidence I find that argument humorous as well, in a pathetic, you need to try harder sort of way.

    We'll never go away or shut up? Funny, I think the same thing every time an idiot like you shows up at my front door. And I do mean an idiot like you, not all Christians. 99% of Christians I know, even the evangelicals, aren't half as retarded as you are.

    Until you chimed in, OG and I were having a healthy and entertaining debate. GTFO newb.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    You say that the condition of the world right is because of the rejection of God. I assume you mean the Christian god, and not allah, buddha, zeus, hades, or anyone of the several hundred other gods out there. Here in lies the problem with your statement. Only 33% of the world believes in your god. The other 66% believe in one or more of the other gods, or no god at all. And aside from the atheists, they all believe the same thing. That all the world's issues would be solved if everybody just accepted their god. So which one is it? Which of the several hundred religions do I believe in to save the world? I'm assuming you've never read the quran, torah, or any of the other holy scripts and studied their religion from an unbiased perspective. So how are you qualified to make an educated decision as to which one is correct? I'm willing to bet your parents were Christian too, and they took you to church as a kid or taught you their beliefs. You were never given a chance to be unbiased. Because you're a Christian, you believe all the bible's prophecies line up. And Muslims believe all the quran's prophecies lineup, and so on. Religion is all based on perspective. Everybody interprets their holy story a different way. If they didn't, there would be no subsects, no Shiites or Sunnis, no baptists, Protestants, etc. there would only be Christians, Muslims, etc.

    It's just my opinion that man created god and religion, and not the other way around. They needed something to believe in so they started interpreting everything they could, to fit what they wanted to believe. They needed to have some sense of security that there was something more, something after life, and something in control of it all. Everybody I talk to that is on the fence about religion and that eventually accept god, confirm this. They say the reason they accepted god is because they needed to know there was something more. My father-in-law tells me all the time how the closer I get to death the more I will believe in god. I have no way of explaining to him that that's not true. Ever heard the phrase "There's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole?" Well, I've been in in several "foxholes" while taking fire, and I'm still an atheist.

    But don't worry, if I see Jesus floating around up there on the way to Mars, you'll be the first to know.
    Referring to your second sentence, Allah is just the Arabic word for "God." We Muslims just don't do the saint worship thing. Or pray to a mortal man who claimed to be the son of god, and later on, claimed to have become god. Just a little education for the masses.

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Referring to your second sentence, Allah is just the Arabic word for "God." We Muslims just don't do the saint worship thing. Or pray to a mortal man who claimed to be the son of god, and later on, claimed to have become god. Just a little education for the masses.
    How do you explain the vehement and often violent resistance to criticism of Mohammed?
    Jim Page

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum

  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPage View Post
    How do you explain the vehemenr and often violent resistance to criticism of Mohammed?
    They can't take the truth about him. Mohammed was not a prophet. Deuteronomy 18 contradicts the Quran, which declares that the "Prophethood and
    Revelation" was to come through the progeny of Isaac and Jacob, not Ishmael (Sura 29:27). He was deemed by some to have been a prophet because of a mole on his back. The mole supposedly signified the sign of a prophet. OK, that being the case, I must be a prophet because I have several of them! From what I have read of him, he was not what one would consider to be the epitome of a prophet but he did manage to attract a following. I have no problem with Muslims having their religion up to a point. When they decide that I should be killed because I refuse to convert to Islam, that crosses the line. I read a little quip once that said, "The CHRISTIAN said he would die for his religion. The MUSLIM said I would die for HIS religion." When a Muslim tries to kill me for not converting to his religion, he is going to be quite surprised because I will fight back. After all, isn't that a reason for us all having a gun or two?

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