Why can't military members carry personal weapons on bases? - Page 3
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 82

Thread: Why can't military members carry personal weapons on bases?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Hog Jaw, Arkansas
    Posts
    2,275
    Howdy Reba,

    Even Gov't employees get a break time.

    Paul

  2.   
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SC Lowcountry
    Posts
    1,547
    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy Reba,

    Even Gov't employees get a break time.

    Paul
    Good to know. :D

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy,



    You must not have read the article because this applies the LEO and security personnel only.


    Paul
    Maybe it is you that needs to re-read the article posted. There is 2 phases to the program. As it states airman from SSGT up in fields from aircraft mechanics, to cooks, to administrative airman will be trained.

    Arming the airmen: Dover AFB now allows open carry on base - News - Dover Post - Dover, DE

  5. #24

    Why can't military members carry personal weapons on bases?

    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    Maybe it is you that needs to re-read the article posted. There is 2 phases to the program. As it states airman from SSGT up in fields from aircraft mechanics, to cooks, to administrative airman will be trained.

    Arming the airmen: Dover AFB now allows open carry on base - News - Dover Post - Dover, DE
    A very limited number *might* be trained to augment security forces under the auspices of the "Unit Marshal Program." This is purely up to the unit commanders to implement, IF they believe it is necessary. They will open-carry military-issued weapons only.

    The average troop will never be given the opportunity to carry on base at Dover AFB or any other installation under any of these three programs.

    I'm starting to hear an echo. :)

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SC Lowcountry
    Posts
    1,547
    Quote Originally Posted by SR9 View Post
    Maybe it is you that needs to re-read the article posted. There is 2 phases to the program. As it states airman from SSGT up in fields from aircraft mechanics, to cooks, to administrative airman will be trained.

    Arming the airmen: Dover AFB now allows open carry on base - News - Dover Post - Dover, DE
    "the Security Forces Staff Arming Program, authorizes security personnel who do not normally carry weapons – such as Metzger and his staff – to be armed on duty."

    "to be carried in personal vehicles while responding to an emergency"

    "the second part of Eagle Shield . . . program trains selected airmen"

    "When on duty, they’ll wear a distinctive insignia quickly let others – including responding security forces – know who they are and also will serve as a deterrent for anyone thinking about starting a shooting spree."

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by kwc View Post
    A very limited number *might* be trained to augment security forces under the auspices of the "Unit Marshal Program." This is purely up to the unit commanders to implement, IF they believe it is necessary. They will open-carry military-issued weapons only.

    The average troop will never be given the opportunity to carry on base at Dover AFB or any other installation under any of these three programs.

    I'm starting to hear an echo. :)

    Well I'll ask around. I live close to Dover AFB.

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MiB602 View Post
    In my 10 years in the Navy I've never figured out why our nation does not trust the members of its own military. I can only conclude that is the case since they impose ever more strict rules governing our conduct and our lifestyle. So why is it that those us charged with the defense of our nation, those of us in whom they place their so called trust to use weapons to defend others if we are attacked, that we can't carry personal weapons onto military bases? If Fort Hood proved anything it is that those who wish us harm can and will take advantage of the fact they know we are not allowed to carry the means of our own defense onto a base. I fail to see the rationale that allows us to wield weapons the rest of the population is not even allowed to own in defense of our country but on a base when it comes to our own defense or the defense of our fellow serviceman we are not to be trusted.
    6 year combat vet here: There is no real reason. It's all politics and ********, no facts or data, just feelings.

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    6 year combat vet here: There is no real reason. It's all politics and ********, no facts or data, just feelings.
    I agree, military men and women should be able to carry on base. They have pretty good training, not as good as me but still pretty good.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    3,361
    Quote Originally Posted by kwc View Post
    Well, not exactly.

    Authorization may be granted by exception only, and even then must be done under the umbrella of a formal program available only to law enforcement officers and designated and trained security forces augmentees (via the "Unit Marshal Program") while carrying an issued service weapon.

    The rest of us remain defenseless.
    Well, not exactly.
    .
    There are actually three programs (or avenues of authorization), and none of them are new. They all existed already but no one was using them, most likely because it wasn't politically correct. The two Air Force programs are the Security Forces Staff Arming program and the Unit Marshal program, as you mentioned. The third avenue to allow carry on base is via the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act. All three of these avenues have been available and open to base commanders for years, but HQ Air Force sent out a notice to all base commanders back in January 'reminding' them of that after doing a high level review of all the active shooter incidents that have occurred at DoD sites. The 'reminder' was in essence a 'political approval' to implement programs that before that time would have been politically unacceptable.
    .
    Dover has implemented the Security Forces Staff Arming program, which arms only Security Forces personnel as has been discussed here. But they're also in the process of implementing the Unit Marshal program, which does in fact allow the arming of military members of any AFSC (specialty or job) at any location on the base. The Unit Marshal program was in fact created specifically to allow the arming of personnel where Security Forces protection was not easily or readily available, though I doubt they had domestic terrorism in mind when they originally created it. Members of the Unit Marshal program can only carry military issue weapons, and only while on duty. They'll almost certainly have to check the weapons out and back in every work day, depending on implementation regulations. Unit Marshals are defensive only. They do not respond to active shooter incidents outside their work area.
    .
    I've not yet seen any report of how any military installation may have decided to implement the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act, though it would only apply to Security Forces and off base law enforcement. However, the LEOSA does specifically authorize concealed carry, so it could be interesting to see how that may get implemented.
    .
    Besides, there's a Federal Law that states Jo one except federally authorized personnel can carry a firearm of on US Gov't property.
    I carry on government property all the time. Ever been to a national park? Travelled in the western states? You carry on government property, and quite legally too. There is no law prohibiting that. I think you may be confusing government property with government installations. Or buildings. We had a lot of problems with that when drafting or lobbying for changes to our Ohio concealed carry laws. Lawmakers very often get confused on the differences too, and some very bad legislation, though often very well intended, gets proposed as a result.
    .
    Sad but true.
    We agree on that. Especially sad they don't trust us when you see some of the people they're giving guns to these days.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by kwc View Post
    A very limited number *might* be trained to augment security forces under the auspices of the "Unit Marshal Program." This is purely up to the unit commanders to implement, IF they believe it is necessary.
    There's no *might* at Dover unless they've reversed course since that article was published in February. They're implementing the Unit Marshal Program, and supposedly others are watching to let Dover blaze the trail. That's not unusual at all really. It's quite common for a base to model its new procedures on another base that already has them.
    .
    They will open-carry military-issued weapons only.
    You got that part right. Unless somebody gets creative with the LEOSA, which allows concealed carry.
    .
    The average troop will never be given the opportunity to carry on base at Dover AFB or any other installation under any of these three programs.
    Well don't hold your breath, because the Unit Marshal Program is designed specifically for the 'average troop', and Dover's implementing it. I'm not saying I'd be totally shocked if some base did something really weird with it and used it in a way other than it was intended. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. But if you know the Air Force then you know they don't give newspaper interviews that aren't cleared through Base Public Affairs first. And you also know that PA isn't going to allow them to say they're arming airmen "from airplane mechanics to cooks to administrative specialists" if that isn't really their plan. So again, as long as they haven't completely reversed course since February.......
    .
    I'm starting to hear an echo. :)
    Are you holding your breath? :-)
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    6 year combat vet here: There is no real reason. It's all politics and ********, no facts or data, just feelings.
    Which is pretty much what all such political decisions are.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  11. #30

    Why can't military members carry personal weapons on bases?

    @Rhino: I don't think there is any daylight between us on our understanding of this issue. The existence of the three distinct programs is pretty clear. How and where they are each implemented is evolving.

    Once again (and hence my echo chamber comment), the "average troop" (meaning the vast majority of military members) will not be able to carry under any of the three programs. The Unit Marshal Program will incorporate a very limited number of participants in any one unit, hand-selected by the commanders. (I've read the guidance.) That leaves a *lot* of average military personnel unarmed. Some people are headline surfing and have concluded the Air Force has granted widespread approval for military members to carry firearms on an installation. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    But if you know the Air Force then you know they don't give newspaper interviews that aren't cleared through Base Public Affairs first. And you also know that PA isn't going to allow them to say they're arming airmen "from airplane mechanics to cooks to administrative specialists" if that isn't really their plan.
    Yep, I know the Air Force well... I'll hit the 27-year point of active duty service this summer and have worked with PA on many issues (currently at a MAJCOM) throughout that time.

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast