Ulster County Application - Page 2
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Thread: Ulster County Application

  1. #11

    Ulster County CCW Process

    I think I could understand a judge issuing restrictions to folks who have no experience with handguns, and anyone under a certain age (no disrespect intended folks), just due to lack of life experience and maturity issues. For example, there is a huge difference between a young single person and an older person who has a family and children with regard to sensitivity to the value of life and the importance of safety around those lives. There is also a similar difference between someone who has been in the military and someone who has not. I am not trying to be disrespectful here, just explaining reality. If you have a hard time with this, give it a few years and when you're my age you'll understand. Anyway, I am just trying to give you some insight into how a seasoned judge may think.

    With regard to pistol experience, in the Marines the Colt 45 and M16 were my standard issue weapons. There are 3 classifications for qualifying with these weapons (from lowest to highest proficiency): Marksman, Sharpshooter, and Rifle/Pistol Expert. I qualified as an Expert with both. Even with this experience, it's been a while, so I can understand again why a judge may be reluctant to give a license with no restrictions even to a person with my experience. I also recently took the Basic Handgun Safety Course and the certified NRA pistol safety course. With all the research I have done looking into having a handgun and CCW license, the one common theme I keeping seeing all over the internet from experienced handgun owners is: practice, practice, PRACTICE! There is no substitute for this experience.

    I do, however, have a huge problem with a blanket statement from ANY judge that NO ONE can justify getting an unrestricted license to carry concealed. Each application should be considered on an individual basis but, for expediency, I can understand why a judge might have this attitude. Issuing CCW licenses is probably just a petty annoyance to them, compared to their other "court" related duties. Also, I would hate to be a judge that issued a non-restricted CCW license and then read about a murder or even an accidental shooting involving the person I gave that license to. This might keep me up at night.

    Having said all of that, I still believe that each CCW application should be considered on it's own merits. I am waiting for an appointment with the judge for my interview. I'll let you know how it goes. I do not plan on arguing with the judge about a non-restricted license, but I will be asking for this.

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  3. #12
    I am all for training, and train all the time. But, for the issuing of a permit, NYS Law does not require it. By a judge not issuing an unrestricted permit until one is "trained," it basically is making laws from the bench and not interpreting them. NYS law also makes it nearly impossible for one to practice before being approved for a permit by not allowing any unlicensed person to even touch a handgun unless you are 18-21 and with your parents.

  4. #13
    FYI..

    Second Amendment Foundation Sues District of Columbia Over Carrying of Handguns

    BELLEVUE, WA The Second Amendment Foundation today filed a lawsuit on behalf of three residents of the District of Columbia and a New Hampshire resident, seeking to compel the city to issue carry permits to law-abiding citizens.

    The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court on behalf of Tom Palmer, George Lyon and Amy McVey, all District residents, and Edward Raymond, a New Hampshire resident. SAF and the individual plaintiffs are being represented by attorney Alan Gura, who successfully argued the landmark District of Columbia v. Heller case in 2008 that overturned the District's handgun ban on the grounds that it was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.

    "Once again," said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb, "we're heading back to court because the anti-gun city administration refuses to abide by the law. It is beginning to appear like residents of the District are up against a rogue city government that simply does not want to ease its stranglehold on the most important civil right of all, the right of self-preservation."

    "In most major American cities," said attorney Gura, "where the right to bear arms is respected, licensed permit holders have proven themselves safe and effective. Washington, D.C. already requires handgun registrants to complete the background checks and training classes required of carry permit holders throughout the country. It is pointless to deny these individuals the right to bear arms."

    SAF previously sued the District over its restrictive handgun registration policies, leading the city to amend those policies. This time, SAF is alleging that the District previously had a city code under which the police chief could issue licenses to carry handguns to individuals, including citizens not residing in the District, though the city did not issue such licenses as a matter of policy for several years. That authority was revoked last December by the Mayor and City Council.

    Plaintiffs are seeking a permanent injunction against the continued ban on carrying handguns by law-abiding citizens for personal protection.

    You can contact the SAF here: Second Amendment Foundation Online

    Maybe they can get Ulster County to "follow the law".

  5. #14
    Jay and Dendro I do agree with you completely.
    Thank You for the information on the SAF. Very interesting.
    I have heard rumor about some NRA organization here in Ulster County regarding this issue. I am not sure who the contact person is or what the actual plan is. I have heard they are taking names and copies of permits and talk of a lawsuit?
    If I find out any information I will post it ASAP.

    The issue of "Our Rights" needs to be addressed IMMEDIATELY! IMHO

  6. #15
    Ready for the next part of this wonderful tale?
    I have two (2) friends who have had their interviews with the Judge here in Ulster County in the past tow weeks.
    To be more accurate, the interview with the Judge's law clerk, the Judge was nowhere to be seen or heard from.
    All of the paperwork was filled out already for them for a restricted permit. They did not even have a chance to offer testimony or proof that they qualify for a carry, nor were they given a chance to speak or even submit anything. The Law clerk stated that even if they do submit evidence that she cannot change anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    So why are we bothering with interviews at all? Wasting everyone's time?

    We have a right to at least be HEARD in a court of LAW! It is this sort of thing that makes my blood boil.
    I dont even know what to think or do anymore with the officials around here anymore.
    From the local cops, DEP Police, the Lawers, the Judge's (Supreme and Family),,,Ulster County is a "Do as I say, Not as I Do" mentality and not a single part of it follows the LAW.
    You could slap people all day long in the face in this county with the Constitution and not a single one of them would know what it is.
    (Pardon my rant, if I offended anyone, Please accept my Apologizes)

  7. #16
    Elected officials have forgotten that they are placed there by the people, and what the people give they can take away. I can only hope that Ulster County has the will to remove these renegade judges and justices that are not upholding the laws of New York State. Ulster County is not NYC, and we should not model our policies on the policies of NYC. November gives us the opportunity to change this policy. It needs to be done.

  8. #17

    Reaching Out To Permit Holders

    What would be the best way to organize and/or reach out to all the Ulster County pistol permit holders? I think there needs to be an organized effort to get full carry permits, but there will need to be a lot of people involved.

  9. Broome County has started a program of upgrading restricted permits to full carry contingent on getting training: complete a class and you can have your restrictions removed. Now that Ulster County has decided to start restricting, I think it's time for a similar program.

    Federated Sportsmen's Clubs of Ulster County has been very active in "pistol permit politics." They are sponsoring the classes that are now required:

    FSCUC.com

    They might be open to sponsoring advanced classes for people wanting to get their restrictions removed. It's a good place to start, I think.

  10. #19
    Judges determine who gets what when it comes to pistol permits, so it is important that CCW folks get involved in electing good judges - those that support the 2nd amendment and RESPONSIBLE gun owners. In light of that I wanted to share some correspondence I just had Don Williams, the winner of the Independent Primary for an Ulster County Judge seat just held on 9/15 (I hope you voted). Don won with a 2 to 1 vote margin over the incumbant, Deborah Shneer.

    Enjoy.

    Note to "the office of" Don Williams:

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi,

    Congratulations on your primary win - I voted for Don Williams. Can you please tell me what his stance is on the 2nd Amendment and, more specifically, his views on CCW pistol permits in Ulster County. Right now it is almost impossible to get an unrestricted permit, and there are a lot of responsible folks like me looking at this with regard to the upcoming election. Will this policy be the same or different if Don Williams is elected? If we currently have restricted permits would he consider taking restrictions off?

    Thank you.

    Jay

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    My note was forwarded to Don Williams. This is his reply.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Jay,

    The code of judicial conduct which applies to all judicial candidates prohibit me from making any promises re: specific rulings if I am elected to the position. However, I have always prided myself on my honesty, so I will attempt to answer your legitimate question without violating any ethical restrictions.

    As I feel about all constitutional rights that we enjoy, I fully support the 2nd amendment. I will examine each case individually and make determinations based upon each applicants background and special circumstances which apply to their case. I will not make any decisions based upon any agenda or policy. I will not use the judicial position as a vehicle for legislation since I respect the separation of powers and will abide by the law of the land.

    I hope this answers your question satisfactorily. It is the best that I can do under the rules that must be followed.

    Don Williams

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't think we can ask for more than that from our judges. So get the word out, and please remember to vote.

    Jay

  11. #20
    He has my vote.

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