Anyone know of someone caught carrying outside their "sportsman" restriction? - Page 2
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Thread: Anyone know of someone caught carrying outside their "sportsman" restriction?

  1. Hi. Just as a warning, I am not a lawyer, and cannot give lawful advice

    I've done about 2 years of research regarding the entire permitting process. The police department or court of issuance (whether you are located up- or down- state) can place arbitrary administrative restrictions upon licensees in the state. Such is a function of the licensing officer. But this action is akin to the licensing officer saying on the license, "you like pink elephants." It has no bearing on law (PEN 400.00). When applying, all people who apply for a "restricted" sportsman class actually are applying for a Class F license which states in part, "(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof." The county (or county police) cannot preempt the state by making the licenses more restrictive than the State allows (see Matter of Chwick v Mulvey (2010 NY Slip Op 09911)). These "restrictions" are meaningless, since the licensing officer cannot arbitrate law (because he is an unelected official in the executive branch) - separation of powers.

    In short, once a Class F license is issued, go about your business as the law (PEN 400.00(f)) prescribes. I do.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by strangequark87 View Post
    Hi. Just as a warning, I am not a lawyer, and cannot give lawful advice

    I've done about 2 years of research regarding the entire permitting process. The police department or court of issuance (whether you are located up- or down- state) can place arbitrary administrative restrictions upon licensees in the state. Such is a function of the licensing officer. But this action is akin to the licensing officer saying on the license, "you like pink elephants." It has no bearing on law (PEN 400.00). When applying, all people who apply for a "restricted" sportsman class actually are applying for a Class F license which states in part, "(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof." The county (or county police) cannot preempt the state by making the licenses more restrictive than the State allows (see Matter of Chwick v Mulvey (2010 NY Slip Op 09911)). These "restrictions" are meaningless, since the licensing officer cannot arbitrate law (because he is an unelected official in the executive branch) - separation of powers.

    In short, once a Class F license is issued, go about your business as the law (PEN 400.00(f)) prescribes. I do.
    Every county may place restrictions and do revolk licenses for people who get caught carrying out of restriction.Case law already allows counties to apply restrictions.This latest case had to do with a Nassau County resident who had a colored gun which was illegal to own and possess in Nassau County.This case doesn't effect license restrictions by the county.The only case is the Westchester law suit which is going for proper cause to issue a carry license.The SCOTUS only addressed an individual right to self defense but never anything about concealed carry.If Westchester is a win that well change things and open the door for the rest of the state.

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by strangequark87 View Post
    Hi. Just as a warning, I am not a lawyer, and cannot give lawful advice

    I've done about 2 years of research regarding the entire permitting process. The police department or court of issuance (whether you are located up- or down- state) can place arbitrary administrative restrictions upon licensees in the state. Such is a function of the licensing officer. But this action is akin to the licensing officer saying on the license, "you like pink elephants." It has no bearing on law (PEN 400.00). When applying, all people who apply for a "restricted" sportsman class actually are applying for a Class F license which states in part, "(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof." The county (or county police) cannot preempt the state by making the licenses more restrictive than the State allows (see Matter of Chwick v Mulvey (2010 NY Slip Op 09911)). These "restrictions" are meaningless, since the licensing officer cannot arbitrate law (because he is an unelected official in the executive branch) - separation of powers.

    In short, once a Class F license is issued, go about your business as the law (PEN 400.00(f)) prescribes. I do.
    NY's highest court, the Court of Appeals, has upheld target, hunting, and other restrictions on licenses. state law does not preempt such restrictions, rather it allows for them according to the Court of Appeals. O'Brien v. Keegan, 87 N.Y.2d 436

    The issue with regard to Penal Law 265 is a matter of statutory construction. It has nothing to to do with preemption or constitutional rights.

    So if you are caught in a 7-11 carrying concealed at 2 am while walking your dog and you only have a permit restricted to target.hunting, although you can't be convicted under Penal Law 265, the licensing officer can revoke or further restrict your permit.

  5. #14
    Me thinks you folks need to move to cattaraugus county... no restrictions..... none.

  6. #15

    Picked up my permit yesterday

    On my permit that I picked up yesterday, it says, restricted "recreational purposes". I asked does that mean walking, jogging, golf, bowling, fishing..ect. The clerk said yes. So basically I have a full carry permit as long aws im doing something recreational. I love my county.

  7. #16

    u wish

    Quote Originally Posted by riffmaker View Post
    On my permit that I picked up yesterday, it says, restricted "recreational purposes". I asked does that mean walking, jogging, golf, bowling, fishing..ect. The clerk said yes. So basically I have a full carry permit as long aws im doing something recreational. I love my county.
    i live upstate newyork i have my ccw and non residency for pa. you can not carry concealed on a restricted license. can u drive on a restricted license.you long island ppl want to cc so bad . when u know you cant . so please stop.

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by armed-an-rdy View Post
    i live upstate newyork i have my ccw and non residency for pa. you can not carry concealed on a restricted license. can u drive on a restricted license.you long island ppl want to cc so bad . when u know you cant . so please stop.

    Well first of all, I do not live in Long Island. I live in "upstate NY". I can carry anytime I am am hunting, fishing , walking , hiking, jogging, target practicing and I also have an exception to carry at work. So I would think I can just about carry 99.9% of the time without a worry. As soon as I join that 24/7 range it will change to 100% of the time. Do you really think a leo upstate is going to be that concerned with your restrictions, unless your doing something real stupid. Backpack in the trunk, next to my fishing pole and hiking boots and dont forget the pile of targets. Im good to go.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by riffmaker View Post
    Well first of all, I do not live in Long Island. I live in "upstate NY". I can carry anytime I am am hunting, fishing , walking , hiking, jogging, target practicing and I also have an exception to carry at work. So I would think I can just about carry 99.9% of the time without a worry. As soon as I join that 24/7 range it will change to 100% of the time. Do you really think a leo upstate is going to be that concerned with your restrictions, unless your doing something real stupid. Backpack in the trunk, next to my fishing pole and hiking boots and dont forget the pile of targets. Im good to go.
    Shopping at a mall going to a bank eating at a restaurant is how many guys get their pistol licenses suspended/revolked.A 24/7 range excuse wont work.You can apply for an unrestricted license about a year after to remove the restrictions.Upstate has a lifetime license,Westchester,NYC,Nassau and Suffolk must be renewed every 3-5 years.The current law suit in Westchester may give everyone a full carry.Everyone write their Senator to sign the Shall carry bill.This well do away with the proper cause requirement for full carry.

  10. #19

    why no ccw

    Quote Originally Posted by riffmaker View Post
    Well first of all, I do not live in Long Island. I live in "upstate NY". I can carry anytime I am am hunting, fishing , walking , hiking, jogging, target practicing and I also have an exception to carry at work. So I would think I can just about carry 99.9% of the time without a worry. As soon as I join that 24/7 range it will change to 100% of the time. Do you really think a leo upstate is going to be that concerned with your restrictions, unless your doing something real stupid. Backpack in the trunk, next to my fishing pole and hiking boots and dont forget the pile of targets. Im good to go.
    why dont you have a unrestricted ccw. if you have live upstate. you can not carry on a restricted license. my license has no restriction and you do so whats the difference.how can we both carry, it makes no sence

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by armed-an-rdy View Post
    why dont you have a unrestricted ccw. if you have live upstate. you can not carry on a restricted license. my license has no restriction and you do so whats the difference.how can we both carry, it makes no sence
    My license states license to carry. It is the same as yours except that the restriction limits where and when. It is still a license to carry concealed. There are 2 types of pistol licenses in NY, premise and carry. Anytime I carry within my restrictions, it must be concealed. My restrictions are very liberal, so thats why I said I carry most of the time. So if im hiking, walking, fishing, or working(i have the exception for work also)I must have it concealed. Although there is not a law against open carry, it is assumed that you cant in NY, because you could be charged with brandishing. The big difference between yours and mine is, for example, I want to go to walmart at 11pm. My restrictions technically say I cant carry because i am not doing a recreational activity. With your permit you can without any worries.

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