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  1. #91
    Brothers I have said it before and I say it again if someone, anyone has their mind made up that they do not want to believe and all they want to do is argue then you are waisting your time . No matter how may facts you present they will always find something to argue about. Just remember as we have said before about the scripture "shake the dust off your feet".
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Brothers I have said it before and I say it again if someone, anyone has their mind made up that they do not want to believe and all they want to do is argue then you are wasting your time .
    I obviously have the time, and you never know when you are going to say (type) something that will catch someone's attention and start them down a new path..
    I do not see it as a waste of time, but a planting of seeds.. So long as it is done with love and respect, If nothing grows, then it's not my problem (But does become the readers responsibility - If you have been told and rejected the information, what excuse do you have???). You also never know who will come along later and water that seed.. I'm not looking for instant results, I'm just planting seeds, it's up to someone else to woo the seed into something that grows..

    Most people had arguments or concerns when someone was 1st talking to them about spiritual things.. Thank God some people had some patience with me, it's my turn to reproduce the life that was invested in me..
    It's just part of the principle of Reciprocity...

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by HootmonSccy View Post
    I obviously have the time, and you never know when you are going to say (type) something that will catch someone's attention and start them down a new path..
    I do not see it as a waste of time, but a planting of seeds.. So long as it is done with love and respect, If nothing grows, then it's not my problem (But does become the readers responsibility - If you have been told and rejected the information, what excuse do you have???). You also never know who will come along later and water that seed.. I'm not looking for instant results, I'm just planting seeds, it's up to someone else to woo the seed into something that grows..

    Most people had arguments or concerns when someone was 1st talking to them about spiritual things.. Thank God some people had some patience with me, it's my turn to reproduce the life that was invested in me..
    It's just part of the principle of Reciprocity...
    I don't disagree with what you say, I'm curios however , as to what you mean when you say,"So long as it is done with love and respect".
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

  5. #94
    There is no way to prove the accuracy or inaccuracy of the Bible without dying. I will say that I have never found science and the Bible to conflict if taken in context of both and the accuracy of our understanding. Just to translate one modern language into another such as French to English will result in confusion even by the best translators. So to translate something that was written 3,000 years ago and not even having the originals to go from is not to be taken as a word for word exact translation.

    We are already handicapped with that and to add to the confusion we have almost 2,000 years of intepretations from various scholars that at many times put more enphasis on translating and interpreting for the financial well-being of the church than for the spiritual well-being of the people. The Bible is a wonderful book if you will read it with an open mind and try to understand it rather than memorizing it to quote scriptures in an arguement.

    It took me many years to understand the parable of the lost sheep. I read many commentaries and heard sermons on it but none of them ever made any sense other than someone struggling to try and convince people of what they thought the people wanted to hear. In fact much of it was either BS or regurgitating wors that someone else thought up trying to justify their lofty position, Finally one day a peace came over me as I finally understood what it was the parable of the pridigal son were all about. You must read it not as a text book or a book of facts but rather a book of ideas that require you to ask, "What did I jiust read", and what does it actually mean. Many times the answer is not what you think and not what you have been told. Most of all it requires you to examine yourself and too many are not ready to do that.

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    There is no way to prove the accuracy or inaccuracy of the Bible without dying. I will say that I have never found science and the Bible to conflict if taken in context of both and the accuracy of our understanding. Just to translate one modern language into another such as French to English will result in confusion even by the best translators. So to translate something that was written 3,000 years ago and not even having the originals to go from is not to be taken as a word for word exact translation.

    We are already handicapped with that and to add to the confusion we have almost 2,000 years of intepretations from various scholars that at many times put more enphasis on translating and interpreting for the financial well-being of the church than for the spiritual well-being of the people. The Bible is a wonderful book if you will read it with an open mind and try to understand it rather than memorizing it to quote scriptures in an arguement.

    It took me many years to understand the parable of the lost sheep. I read many commentaries and heard sermons on it but none of them ever made any sense other than someone struggling to try and convince people of what they thought the people wanted to hear. In fact much of it was either BS or regurgitating wors that someone else thought up trying to justify their lofty position, Finally one day a peace came over me as I finally understood what it was the parable of the pridigal son were all about. You must read it not as a text book or a book of facts but rather a book of ideas that require you to ask, "What did I jiust read", and what does it actually mean. Many times the answer is not what you think and not what you have been told. Most of all it requires you to examine yourself and too many are not ready to do that.
    THANK YOU. FN, how does one avoid the "bible thumpers" if i were to study the bible? I have questions, but, this is not a place to ask them. The bible causes me much interest, but when I run into the haters with a bible in their hand, it sours my stomach.

  7. #96
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    Lightbulb

    OK Iceman, FN no one has to die to prove the bible, if you are prone to reading other than gun forums, books for example there are many scientific studies already out there proving the bible is actually more of a historical text.

    If you want it in a story format My favorite comes to mind, titled "Beyond Deaths door" Written by an MD that (past tense word usage) was an agnostic, as my copy is out on loan now I will have to wait to get the authors name.

    As to me i need no further proof, but apparently you do and hence must do your own search. For any research I do will only be greeted with negativity, and distrust forI see your mind is already made up, and any quest must always begin at home.
    So again I challenge you both go forth and prove the Bible wrong, be beware every one who has tried only finds they cannot...
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    OK Iceman, FN no one has to die to prove the bible, if you are prone to reading other than gun forums, books for example there are many scientific studies already out there proving the bible is actually more of a historical text.

    If you want it in a story format My favorite comes to mind, titled "Beyond Deaths door" Written by an MD that (past tense word usage) was an agnostic, as my copy is out on loan now I will have to wait to get the authors name.

    As to me i need no further proof, but apparently you do and hence must do your own search. For any research I do will only be greeted with negativity, and distrust forI see your mind is already made up, and any quest must always begin at home.
    So again I challenge you both go forth and prove the Bible wrong, be beware every one who has tried only finds they cannot...
    Thank you sheldon

  9. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I don't disagree with what you say, I'm curios however , as to what you mean when you say,"So long as it is done with love and respect".
    Why would I approach anyone with anything but Love and Respect..

    God Loves me, and I don't always (usually) deserve it, so it's not that much to ask for me to love others?

    Many Christians come at non-believers (pagans) and come off with a self-righteous, rude, non-listening, dismissive attitude, and wonder why nobody wants to become a Christian....
    I prefer the Love and Respect approach until the response causes me to change from that.. IF I am insulted back, I do my best (I fail sometimes) not to attack back..
    You never hear someone say Budda Damn, or exclaim Mohammad when they hit their finger with a hammer.. There is power in the name of Jesus and the True God, and the light of that power offends people who are in darkness. SO, if people are rude to me, it's not really me they are offended by, because I try to come with a good attitude. IF they are offended by Christ, who am I to attack back??

    So why were you confused by my statement??

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  10. #99
    as I finally understood what it was the parable of the pridigal son were all about.
    FN, I'm curious about how you understand that particular parable and how it applies to the Iceman's concerns within this thread.

    Im reading a book right now that deals with this parable exclusively. I'm getting the impression (I'm not done reading it yet) that of the two groups of people that Jesus was telling the story to, 1)the sinners and tax collectors [represented by the younger brother] and 2)the Pharisees and teachers of the law [represented by the older brother], the story was addressing the Pharisees and teachers. In the Iceman's case the "holier than thou" christians that attempt to spout bible verses at him like it was their job to bring him to faith in Christ.

    To quote Timothy Keller, "The targets of this story are not the "wayward sinners" but religious people who do everything the Bible requires. Jesus is pleading not so much with immoral outsiders as with moral insiders. He wants to show them their blindness, narrowness, and self-righteousness, and how these things are destroying both their own souls and the lives of the people around them."

    One should not try to debate another into christianity. Additionally, we should watch our intentions spouting off scripture (are we sharing scripture or ramming it down someones throat) in conversations such as these so as not to become arrogant, self righteous, and mean spirited toward unbelievers.

    Iceman, I feel your pain and if you ever catch me being self-righteous or arrogant about my faith, please feel free to put me in check. I'll be praying for you.
    There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way." - C. S. Lewis

  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by HootmonSccy View Post
    So why were you confused by my statement??
    To long a story.You gave me enough insight, I get it. Thanks.
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

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