Ut-oh, CCW holder plays cowboy. Oops. - Page 2
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Thread: Ut-oh, CCW holder plays cowboy. Oops.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by OngoingFreedom View Post
    Did I miss something or did the reporter describe everything about the perps except their race?
    The perps are from Norway.

  3. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    The High Country
    Dang Norwegians. Norwegian terrorists, no doubt.

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Honolulu, HI & Salt Lake City, UT
    What a doofus. Makes me wonder if he had proper firearms training. His support hand appears a little out of place.

    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  5. #14

    Too Much TV...Too Little Training

    This could have gone horribly wrong. This guy is extremely lucky that those rounds didn't find an innocent bystander. What was he thinking? Nobody's life was in danger (other than the people down range from the shooter) AND he chased after the criminals. They were already in the car and driving away! Yeesh.
    Owning a firearm is the first step of a life long journey. Once you make the purchase you need to study, learn, drill, and train. You have to be mentally prepared to carry, and that doesn't mean hoping for and looking for an opportunity to draw on somebody.
    This guy must have been so excited thinking that he finally got his chance to draw when instead he should have been thanking God that they didn't come in armed and force him into a situation where he HAD to draw.
    The second amendment gives us the right to arm ourselves, but we also have a responsibility to fully understand the consequences of drawing our weapon. Once it leaves the safety of our holsters, somebody might die.
    Here's a little litmus test that cowboy could have used. When reaching for your steel, if you find yourself saying "hot damn" rather than "oh, sh!#", you should probably engage the brain and stop your actions.

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Salem, Oregon, USA

    Another take on what happened at the phone store...

    This is a different take on it. Written a little different. Probably LUCKY for his cousin, his cousin also has a permit but wasn't packing his gun that day, there would probably been a couple more bullets buzzing around from his gun if he had been. His cousin: "Giancone, who also holds a conceal-carry permit, wasn't carrying his gun."

    Then, when they let Witter out of jail he seems to not even have had a quarter so he could call for a ride. I'm sure the cops probably would have let him call someone on one of their phones if he would have asked nicely...but, maybe not...they were pretty pi$$ed at him for shooting his gun withOUT knowing where the bullets were going. Totally NOT thinking.

    He HAD to take a class to get the permit and ALL teachers STRESS the fact you only pull your weapon when you are afraid of bodily harm or losing your or your loved ones lives. NOT when a couple yahoos steal a cell phone.

    LOOK at his answer: "I was just trying to stop a crime," he said. "Was it a mistake? Probably. Would I do it again? Probably."

    Would he do it again? "PROBABLY".

    I have to agree, he probably should NOT be packing a gun. He sure doesn't seem to remember WHEN/HOW/WHAT FOR he is supposed to use it for. Downright dangerous to everyone around him.

    This article is written better than the first one.

    You CAN bet on one thing...it WILL probably be used by the anti-gun people about MOST permit holders being JUST LIKE HIM OR WORSE.

    Cowboys like him stick in peoples minds for a long time. Six months or a year from now people will be remembering "Yeah, I remember six months ago when when someone stole a cell phone and this guy who had a concealed carry permit whips out a gun and starts shooting at everything in sight."
    And the next telling would probably be worse than that. Maybe even someone wounded or dead in the telling of the story... all tied into a CCW holder.

    Not good. The BEST thing someone could have done for the guy would have been to scream for him to NOT shoot his gun, to put it right back away. Oh no, he isn't a HERO, so why was his gun out? Over a cell phone? Geeez.



    052710 2247

    Breaking News, Downtown Gresham, Portland AT&T customer in Gresham goes to jail after shooting at thieves' getaway car

    By Bryan Denson, The Oregonian

    May 26, 2010, 7:34PM

    Stuart Tomlinson/The Oregonian

    Roger Witter demonstrates the stance he took before firing twice into the bumper of a car containing two suspected iPhone thieves in Gresham last night. GRESHAM -- Roger Witter saw a couple of thieves run off with phones at a Gresham AT&T store, gave chase and shot a couple of holes in their getaway car with a .38-caliber revolver.

    When to shoot
    Oregon's laws are very specific about when it's appropriate to fire guns to thwart crimes.

    Citizens can fire weapons at other people -- acts known as "deadly force" -- only to prevent a violent felony or the imminent risk of serious physical injury or death, said Doug Harcleroad, a retired Lane County district attorney and senior policy adviser for the Oregon Anti-Crime Alliance.

    Those who shoot at vehicles or nonhuman targets to thwart crimes can be charged with a number of offenses, including reckless endangerment, disorderly conduct, unlawful use of a weapon or discharging a firearm inside city limits, he said.

    The thieves got away. Witter wasn't so lucky.

    Police cuffed Witter and hauled him to jail in downtown Portland. He pleaded not guilty Wednesday to disorderly conduct and discharging a firearm inside city limits.

    Witter, 48, said his travails began Tuesday when his phone conked out. That night, the self-employed illustrator and muralist headed to the AT&T shop at 533 N.W. Division St. with his cousin, Duane Giancone, 52.

    Witter was at the counter about 20 minutes when two young guys walked in behind him. Suddenly, sirens blared and the guys dashed out of the store with four iPhones they had yanked from a display.

    Witter and Giancone raced after them.

    "Stop!" they yelled. "Stop!"

    The two thieves piled into a slate-gray car, which police later described as a Chrysler.

    Witter didn't want them to get away. He had watched the decay of his nearby Rockwood neighborhood and considered the MAX train that passes through "a highway to crime." Outside his own house last year, Witter said, he had to rescue a man beaten in the head with a hammer.
    View full size

    To protect himself, he obtained a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    Outside the AT&T store Tuesday Witter pulled that weapon, a five-shot Smith & Wesson revolver loaded with hollow-point slugs. He dropped to one knee in front of the getaway car, aimed at its right tire and shouted a single command.


    The car lurched forward, swerving to avoid Witter, who opened fire in hopes he could disable the tire and thwart the thieves. But Witter missed the tire. Twice.

    Giancone, who also holds a conceal-carry permit, wasn't carrying his gun.

    Witter holstered his revolver and walked back into the store. A manager and a security guard appeared. Witter inquired again about his broken iPhone.

    Gresham police officers pulled up and asked who fired the shots. When Witter identified himself, they took his gun, keys, pocketknife and conceal-carry permit. They handcuffed him and took him to jail.

    Sgt. Rick Wilson later said that in a case like this, no matter how frustrated someone gets with crime, it's not permissible to use deadly force.

    "Those two rounds could've gone anywhere," Wilson said in a news release. "In fact, we're still not sure where they went. They could've struck an innocent bystander or damaged property."

    Witter took exception to any such notion. The slugs he fired in the ordinarily busy shopping district hit the front bumper of the getaway car, he said, and police will find them when they locate the vehicle. Witter said he saw no bystanders at the time.

    "I wasn't shooting willy-nilly," he said. "I feel like they took the wrong guy to jail."

    Witter described himself as a lifelong deer and elk hunter, a guy who took gun safety courses and followed the law.

    "I'm not a cowboy, I'm not a hero," he said. "I just wanted to do what was right."

    Gun lobbyist Kevin Starrett, whose Oregon Firearms Federation supports the rights of gun owners and those who hold conceal-carry permits, said he thought Witter showed poor judgment.

    "I can understand his desire to be helpful," Starrett said. "But it was not the thing to do. You can't shoot someone's tires out; it's just not TV."

    The incident was a blur, Witter said.

    "I was just trying to stop a crime," he said. "Was it a mistake? Probably. Would I do it again? Probably."

    Jailers cut Witter loose in the wee hours Wednesday, too late to catch a MAX train back to Gresham. Without a ride or a phone to call for one, he walked more than 10 miles home in the rain.

    AT&T officials declined to comment on the theft of iPhones or Witter's attempts to stop the crime. And it seemed to Witter that, in the end, the thieves -- suspected of a related theft of two iPhones at Mall 205 -- came out way ahead.

    "They got new iPhones," he said, "and mine still doesn't work."

    -- Bryan Denson

  7. #16
    "I was just trying to stop a crime," he said. "Was it a mistake? Probably. Would I do it again? Probably."
    The difference between ignorance and stupidity is ignorance can be cured. I admire his wanting to help and do what he thinks is the right thing but he needs a little "larnin'". Trying to shoot out the tires on the getaway vehicle is for Dirty Harry in the movies, it don't happen in real life except by accident. This fellow sure appears to fit the description of "Rather than preparing for the need to use his gun he was looking for a excuse to use his gun".

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by OngoingFreedom View Post
    Did I miss something or did the reporter describe everything about the perps except their race?
    Does race really matter? The thing here is that no life was in danger so why fire at them?

  9. #18
    ooooo... bad move man..
    You can have my freedom as soon as I'm done with it!!!

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    fine line?

    In this case it was clear that shooting at fleeing robbers is not OK, even if the shooter was a cop, especially if the robbers were not armed, etc.

    I can see that if the witness was in the store during the robbery, he would have wanted to try to stop the robbery. If he succeeded I guess he would have been considered a hero, even if he had pulled his weapon to stop them? Well, if that is true (maybe not?), once he pulled the weapon he would have been committed to follow through if the robbers ignored him or threatened others or simply ran away?

    I realize the fellow probably felt helpless in this situation, but he did have some extra power available with his concealed weapon. The moral of the story is that you just can't pull out your weapon unless you or someone else else is in immediate danger, unless you are in in your own home and someone breaks in, at least in OR. I think this is true in most if not all States? I.e., would he have been acting properly in some other State under these circumstances?


  11. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    I guess this proves it. The only ones that should be allowed to carry guns are the police. We need to stop this stupid idea of regular citizens being allowed to carry guns. There will be carnage in the streets if we don't ban guns now! No guns= no randomly flying bullets! Wake up America! Mayors Daley and Bloomberg know what they are talking about!

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