Is OBAMA the ANTICHRIST? - 12 of 19 characteristics are met! - Page 4
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Thread: Is OBAMA the ANTICHRIST? - 12 of 19 characteristics are met!

  1. #31
    ONE MORE TIME... I've said it before: to me, it matters NOT in what order the End Time events unfold. Just knowing that God is in control, that He has a perfect plan and that He holds every Believer in the palm of His hand is ALL that I need to know. In other words, I'm a Pan-Trib: it will all pan out in the end.
    Conservative Wife & Mom -- I'm a Conservative Christian-American with dual citizenship...the Kingdom of God is my 1st home and the U.S.A. is my 2nd.

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  3. #32
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    One more verse of scripture for those questioning the pre-trib Rapture. The last two letters to the churches are the Church of Philadelphia and the Church in Laodicea. The Church of Philadelphia is the true church consisting of the Born Again Christians, the Church of Laodicea is the apostate church. Revelation 3:10 speaking to the Church of Philadelphia.."Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth". Is there any part of "keep you from" that is misunderstood?
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    One more verse of scripture for those questioning the pre-trib Rapture. The last two letters to the churches are the Church of Philadelphia and the Church in Laodicea. The Church of Philadelphia is the true church consisting of the Born Again Christians, the Church of Laodicea is the apostate church. Revelation 3:10 speaking to the Church of Philadelphia.."Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth". Is there any part of "keep you from" that is misunderstood?
    And those were real churches during that time which some attempt to use to prove that point. I understand exactly the message to "that" church at that time and the promise to"that" church to be kept from tribulation. Sorry Ringo. You can believe it if you will but I don't buy it. There again as I have said we all have opinions. If the catching away does come before the trib I will be happy and glad to tell you I was wrong. Whichever way it goes I think it very likely will be in my life time, and I am no spring chicken.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    And those were real churches during that time which some attempt to use to prove that point. I understand exactly the message to "that" church at that time and the promise to"that" church to be kept from tribulation. Sorry Ringo. You can believe it if you will but I don't buy it. There again as I have said we all have opinions. If the catching away does come before the trib I will be happy and glad to tell you I was wrong. Whichever way it goes I think it very likely will be in my life time, and I am no spring chicken.
    . The Church of Philadelphia & the Church of Laodicea are future at the time John penned the scripture, not a church of "that" time. The seven churches are an outline of church history from" Beginning to End Times". Again, Philadelphia & Laodicea are the two churches described relating to End Times, the churches existing present day. The Lord certainly isn't telling a church of the past (non existent) that He would keep them from the hour of trial (Tribulation Period) to occur 2,000 years in the future. No offense, but this is scripture, not an "opinion".
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    . The Church of Philadelphia & the Church of Laodicea are future at the time John penned the scripture, not a church of "that" time. The seven churches are an outline of church history from" Beginning to End Times". Again, Philadelphia & Laodicea are the two churches described relating to End Times, the churches existing present day. The Lord certainly isn't telling a church of the past (non existent) that He would keep them from the hour of trial (Tribulation Period) to occur 2,000 years in the future. No offense, but this is scripture, not an "opinion".
    Dear Ringo, that is exactly what the Bible is telling us. Jesus is the faithful witness who IS and Was and IS YET TO COME. This is the entire timeline on which the book of Revelation is based and the time that IS is the church age. He goes on to tell us that John is to write the things that he has SEEN, the things that ARE and the things that shall be HEREAFTER. The things he has SEEN is when he sees Jesus in His resurrected body. The things that are HEREAFTER are in Rev 4:1 and that is speaking of the rapture. What happens in between is the things that ARE which is the church age. The seven churches are real as well as prophetic of the church age, ending in the church of Laodiceans which we are now in. You can actually date each church age very accurately, but most attempts at doing this are deceptive, be careful which authority you trust. So, in chapter one of the book of Revelation, there are two separate lines of witness telling us about the things to come in the church age and those that will be beyond the church age which ends at the end of chapter 3 and the church of Ladiceans. If people don't want to take the word of Jesus Himself, there is certainly not much any of the rest of us can say.

  7. I agree completely with your statement HK4U.

  8. The antichrist is given power to make war with the saints!

    Revelation 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.


    Daniel 7:21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them,


    Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.


    Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


    Our Lord is so amazing, and has warned us over and over in scripture that we will face persecution....so I do honestly believe it does matter what we believe. God gave this to us so that we will be PREPARED. IF we are not prepared spiritually we will fall. Look how many times Jesus gave a parable on unprepared servants losing their place in the kingdom! This is extremely important!

    But, we are not to be patient and kind with those who do not believe as we do, but we do not have to minimize the importance of knowing God's Word.

    Those of us who believe in a post tribulation (and even a mid trib) view, seem to want to be prepared, and want to see the truth in God's Word. But, I have to be honest, every pre-tribber I've ever spoken with was more concerned with proving that God is too merciful to allow his people to endure such a horrible time.

    But, the Bible makes it clear that the antichrist is given the power and authority to make war with Christians...the Bible says that...but the pre-trib view makes a distinction between "which" christians will endure persecution, but, the BIBLE does NOT. The BIble doesn't say "certain" (those left behind) believers will be persecuted.

    I think we have to be focused on the truth, and not focused on trying to prove that we won't be here during that horrible time.

    Jesus told us in Matthew 24 and 25 and Luke 17 when he was coming, and he said "immediately" after the tribulation. He didn't say anything about 7 years before the tribulation. He said, "Don't let anyone deceive you...as the lightning is from the east to the west, so shall the coming of the son of man be". He wants to us know that he is coming for us and every eye shall see him! He's not coming in secret...don't let anyone deceive you.

    I used to have the pre-trib view...I was raised on it...until I just started reading the scriptures without preconceived notions...I just read what it says. It makes plain sense.

    To support a pre-trib view we have to add our own interpretation to scriptures that aren't quite as plain as what Jesus said! For example, "being kept from the hour of trial" is debatable...and "the restrainer" is debatable.

    But, what we cannot debate is the following because scripture tells us these things plainly:

    1. Jesus emphasized over and over again that his servants needed to be prepared or they would lose their place in his kingdom. Matthew 25, Luke 12:35-48, 14-24

    2. Christians are PROMISED persecution as long as they follow Christ. John 15:19-21, 2 Corinthians 12:10, Matthew 5:10-12, 2 Corinthians 4: 8-11

    3. The Bible says the antichrist is given power to make war with the saints and it does NOT say anything about saints who are "left behind". (see scriptures in Daniel and Revelation above)

    4. Jesus said don't let anyone deceive you about his coming for his saints. He said it will not be secret; it will be public. Matthew 24:23-28

    5. Jesus rescues his servants from the antichrist. He says he is gathering his elect immediately after the tribulation in a very public display in power and great glory. Matthew 24:29-31


    In order to believe a post tribulation rapture you have to just accept scripture at face value.

    In order to believe a pretribulation rapture you have to "infer" from scriptures and even deny the plain scriptures.

    For example:

    God promised us persecution...but in order to support a pretrib view you have to deny that because the most common pretrib argument is that a good God wouldn't allow his people to suffer persecution. We also have to deny what the scriptures say about the antichrist being given power to make war with the saints, or we have to "infer" that it doesn't apply to some Christians.

    We have to infer that what Jesus said about Philadelphia applies to us today....and that it means that they won't even experience persecution (it could also mean that they will be kept in peace and safe through persecution and not necessarily mean that they are taken out of the world..read John 17:15)

    Jesus said he was coming immediately after the tribulation...we have to "infer" a coming 7 years before the coming of Christ....a coming that scripture speaks nothing of.

    So, we can accept Jesus at his Word (I'm paraphrasing), "After my elect have been persecuted by the antichrist, immediately after the tribulation, I am coming back for them in all power and glory, in plain sight, everyone will see me, I am catching them up to the clouds, don't let anyone tell you any different, don't let anyone deceive you." Our savior took great care in explaining all of this to us, so all we have to do is take him at his word...plain and simple...no discrepancy about it. Jesus said look for this coming...this is when I'm coming back.

    Or we ignore, deny and apply scripture selectively at our will to make some inferences and educated guesses that Jesus is coming back in a secret rapture for a select few believers because our feelings tell us that God wouldn't allow the antichrist to persecute us. And we look for a secret rapture that Jesus never mentioned to us????

    So, my question is, why not just take him at his word? Why make it more complicated than it has to be. He told us when he is coming for us. Let's believe his word...and trust him.

  9. #38
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    Anti Christ no... Evil Conniving Deceitful Maniacal Socialist who we will vote out of office in 2 years, Yes....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  10. #39
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    I've studied this topic for many years - it's fascinating and will happen. Many good intentioned and knowledeable Christian has used solid bible reference to conclude very differently from another good intentioned and knowledeable Christian. The bible is only a starting point, not the end. The end of the knowlege and the actual revelation will be spirit. I do not know if he is the AC but can tell you that the spirit is telling me that he is quite different than any world leader, good and nefarious the world has ever experienced. He exudes an emptiness in his words, though they be flowery and clever. He is vacuous of normal feeling for this country and its people. He is arrogant to the people's wishes. He circumvents the Constitution with czars and more czars, albeit that preceding presidents did as well. Though the "birth certificate" thing has been played down to conspiracy nut meal, I think it may bounce back to be significant. I don't know if he is the AC. We can't assume that everything has to come from the US - we may not even be a player in the end. But, he gives me the creeps and so many others I know indicate the same.

  11. #40
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    As far as voting him out of office I hope it happens. But don't assume it will happen just because the tide is soooo against him at the moment. He can manufacture a crisis, use a dormant authorization buried in the ultimate "sleeper cell" against this country called the Patriot Act which is anything but patriotic, and suspend elections. Considering his arrogance which is so thick it can't be hidden, do not think that he will easily leave office merely because the People voted him out. I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

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