America: Graduating from God? by Chuck Norris - Page 4
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Thread: America: Graduating from God? by Chuck Norris

  1. #31
    Atheists are not interested in the truth. Truth is not relevant to them. Their ignorance of the Constitution is amazing. I guess they have a different version in some kind of parallel universe.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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  3. #32
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    And when religionists can't assail the facts I've been putting out, they attack MY faith.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  4. #33
    Aahhh....we're going downhill, here, and getting too antagonistic. Cathy, the thing that boggles my mind is how anyone can read the myriad of writings by the Founders and then arrive at the conclusion that they meant for NO expression of faith in the gov't or public sector. These guys were all about public expressions of faith.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Aahhh....we're going downhill, here, and getting too antagonistic. Cathy, the thing that boggles my mind is how anyone can read the myriad of writings by the Founders and then arrive at the conclusion that they meant for NO expression of faith in the gov't or public sector. These guys were all about public expressions of faith.
    I have been silent since yesterday morning, because I was probably not too polite to Cathy in my posting, and for that I apologize.

    What I don't get is how someone can use the constitution to PROHIBIT Christianity, but permit all other religions...
    Cathy said yesterday morning
    If your religion cannot survive in an environment devoid of the use of the power of the state to support it, then it has no claim to the mantle of a "One True Religion".
    But isn't it the power of the state that is prohibiting us from practicing Christianity while promoting all the other religions under the guise of "cultural diversity" or "expanding our Horizons"? If it is OK to bring other religions into our institutions, yet prohibit Christianity, then aren't we doing EXACTLY what the 1st Amendment prohibits? Infringing upon my right to exercise my religion without intervention by the government? In the long term, Christianity will be relegated to the shadows, while the other religions are embraced in public forums...you are already seeing it in Kalifornia.

    I agree with JJ that this thread is heading south, so my final comments are mostly rhetorical....I just wanted to throw them out there to mull over, no response is required

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    And when religionists can't assail the facts I've been putting out, they attack MY faith.
    When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    Asked and answered. It's the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment, backed up by incorporation against the States, from which the schools get their authority to coerce attendance, by the 14th Amendment.

    What you described, the parents of the students getting together and voting on what the school should do, has a name... private school. And hey, if a private school supported by private funds wants to demand that all of its students pray a Christian prayer three times a day and go to Christian church services on Sunday and Wednesday, and if a Hindu student protests, he can GTFO if he doesn't like it, then great, mazeltov. More power to you, but you and they can do that without tax funds from the whole state.

    Once you're talking about public schools paid for by tax dollars where a student cannot so easily extricate himself from such oppression, you're done. No more school institutional religiosity for you.
    I would repectfully disagree. The 1st Amendment is incorporated by the 14th, yes. It prevents Congress, and through incorporation, the States, from passing a law. Saying a prayer or putting up a symbol is not passing a law.

    IMO, it would prohibit a public school from forcing a person to join a particular religion, or forcing them to say a prayer, it would also prohibit a school from preventing a person from the practice of another religion (wiccan has been used). But, the 1st amendment does not prohibit schools from having a prayer (which each student is not forced to say), or displaying a nativity scene.

    The courts have postulated that by having a prayer, or by putting up a religious symbol, the school is promoting a particular religion. Maybe that's true. But by removing them, the state is promoting the religion of atheism. The Constitution does not guarantee a person will not be offended (actually, I belive the 1st Amendment is the guarantee to offend others). It does not guarantee a person is free to live his life absent of conflicting views. By preventing prayer and religious symbols, the only views that are acceptable to the State are those of the Athiest.

    I believe THIS is the clear violation of the 1st Amendment, establising atheism as the State religion.
    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfling68 View Post
    I believe...
    Telling words in which to couch your comments. So why then is it necessary to demonstrate your "beliefs" for all to see in school? Or why should the absence of this or any other such demostration of religious belief be construed to support atheism?

    It can't. For true belief exists only in the mind of the faithful. Only when it is perveted for ulterior motive does the conflict begin.

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfling68 View Post
    But by removing them, the state is promoting the religion of atheism.
    I've never understood how anyone can think this way about atheism. As someone on another forum said, "Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby." Atheism is, by definition, is a neutral position. It cannot be a religion, and it is not anti-religion. It's a lack of religion; nothing more, nothing less.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfling68 View Post
    By preventing prayer and religious symbols, the only views that are acceptable to the State are those of the Athiest. I believe THIS is the clear violation of the 1st Amendment, establising atheism as the State religion.
    I disagree. Since atheism by definition cannot be a competing religion, nor is it anti-religion, nothing is being forced on you. No views are being rammed down your throat. You can't force nothing on someone.


    Most atheists I've known do not harbor anti-religious sentiments, and most are not vocal. It doesn't matter to them what your personal beliefs are, so long as those beliefs aren't forced on them. They tend to be very live-and-let-live people, and most of them aren't very judgmental at all. They don't look down on the religious, they just don't share their beliefs.

    I would encourage everyone to avoid lumping all atheists together, the same way I would encourage everyone not to lump all Christians in with the Westboro Baptist Church.
    South Carolina CWP holder and proud member of GrassRoots GunRights

  10. Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    And when religionists can't assail the facts I've been putting out, they attack MY faith.
    That is a very odd comment from someone that attacks my faith all the time. Not quite sure what kind of faith a person has that depends on science and reason. Quite a strange comment. Perhaps someone could quote my comment so we could all find out what Cathy's faith is. I would be interested in that since it was my impression that faith was not part of her make up.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    That is a very odd comment from someone that attacks my faith all the time. Not quite sure what kind of faith a person has that depends on science and reason. Quite a strange comment. Perhaps someone could quote my comment so we could all find out what Cathy's faith is. I would be interested in that since it was my impression that faith was not part of her make up.
    Cathy said on another thread.."when has religion ever given us a prediction that could be tested? When has religion ever given us the knowledge to increase crop yields to avert a famine? You said.."Knowledge to increase crop yields to avert a famine. Try the story of Joesph for that one".

    I think the real reason Cathy put you on her ignore list is because she put her foot in her mouth with that question. You gave her an answer that she couldn't dispute, you gave her a fact that she asked for, a fact that proved her wrong. Considering the amount of Bible predictions (prophesy) that can withstand testing, Cathy asked the wrong question. Knowing how Cathy likes to deal in "facts", it's easier for Cathy to ignore you than continue to debate you on this one. IMO.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________
    I believe the comment you want quoted is.."Sorry, Cathy, you are wrong again, belief in Jesus Christ as our Saviour is the most important decision to make in ones life. Hopefully one day you shall know that yourself".
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

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