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  1. #61
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    My family and I go to Shanksville, PA or are at the Pentagon on the anniversary every year except last year. We were in DC for the march.
    How many people know that the monument at Shanksville is in the form of a crescent that faces Mecca? The families have expressed their displeasure and have been ignored. Seems the political goals are over-riding the wishes of families and community.

    PRO-LIFE FROM CONCEPTION TO NATURAL DEATH
    TO HIM THEREFORE WHO KNOWETH TO DO GOOD AND DOETH IT NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN. HOLY BIBLE]

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathleenElsie View Post
    My family and I go to Shanksville, PA or are at the Pentagon on the anniversary every year except last year. We were in DC for the march.
    How many people know that the monument at Shanksville is in the form of a crescent that faces Mecca? The families have expressed their displeasure and have been ignored. Seems the political goals are over-riding the wishes of families and community.
    THESE ARE THE FACTS

    Controversy
    This design "drew criticism from some religious groups and online blogs."[11] A photojournalist wrote at zombietime that:[12]

    The winning design chosen to memorialize the heroes and victims of 9/11’s Flight 93 is in the shape of a red crescent that looks–either accidentally or intentionally–remarkably like an Islamic crescent.
    ...[A]n azimuthal equidistant world map ... seems to indicate that the crescent is oriented toward Mecca.
    Jury member Tom Burnett Sr., whose son was killed in the crash, said he made an impassioned speech to his fellow jurors about what he felt the crescent represented, "I explained this goes back centuries as an old-time Islamic symbol," Burnett said. "I told them we'd be a laughing stock if we did this."[13] Representative Tom Tancredo of Colorado has opposed the design's shape "because of the crescent's prominent use as a symbol in Islam." Mike Rosen of the Rocky Mountain News wrote: "On the anniversaries of 9/11, it's not hard to visualize al-Qaeda celebrating the crescent of maple trees, turning red in the fall, "embracing" the Flight 93 crash site. To them, it would be a memorial to their fallen martyrs. Why invite that? Just come up with a different design that eliminates the double meaning and the dispute."[14]

    The architect asserted that this is coincidental and that there was no intent to refer to Muslim symbols. Several victims' families agreed, including the family of Edward P. Felt.[15]

    Others criticized the design as too non-representational. "We don't need giant statues of the guys ramming the drink cart into the door. But pedantic though such a monument might be, future generations would infer the plot. All you get from a Crescent of Embrace is a sorrowful sigh of all-encompassing grief and absolution, as if the lives of all who died on that spot were equal in tragedy. They were not," wrote James Lileks, a journalist and architectural commentator.[16]
    DESIGN MODIFICATIONS
    [edit] Design modifications
    In response to criticism, the designer has agreed to modify the plan. The architect believes that the central elements can be maintained to satisfy criticism. "It's a disappointment there is a misinterpretation and a simplistic distortion of this, but if that is a public concern, then that is something we will look to resolve in a way that keeps the essential qualities," Murdoch, 48, said in a telephone interview to the Associated Press.[17]

    The redesigned memorial has the plain shape of a circle (as opposed to a crescent) bisected by the flight's trajectory. "The circle enhances the earlier design by putting more emphasis on the crash site, officials said in the newsletter. A break in the trees will symbolize the path the plane took as it crashed."[18] There is criticism that the redesign does not address any of the issues with the original design.[who?]

    The redesign has been unveiled and can be seen at the NPS official web page for the memorial. Architect Paul Murdoch describes it as follows:

    "The image is an aerial view from the bowl looking towards the Sacred Ground. To the left in the background, a walkway approaches from an arrival court along the edge of and overlooking the Sacred Ground. The walkway eventually widens in from a ceremonial gate, shown in bronze, and the wall of names, composed of 40 panels of 3-inch (7.6 cm)-thick slabs of polished white granite, 8 feet (2.4 m) tall, each inscribed with a name of the 40 heroes. Two walls flanking the gate are clad in polished white granite and the flight path is paved with black granite. Beyond the gate is the impact site, shown planted with wildflowers, and the hemlock grove beyond."[19]

    Flight 93 National Memorial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    FROM THE PARK SERVICE
    http://www.nps.gov/flni/upload/Desig...sentatioN2.pdf

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    Which ones are we supposed to hate? All of them, or just certain ones? Here is a list for you to choose from.
    BTW, all the 911 hijackers were from Saudi. Saudi's are great friends with the oil billiionare Bush and Channey families.
    Let us know who the bad ones are.

    A comprehensive 2009 demographic study of 232 countries and territories reported that 23% of the global population or 1.57 billion people are Muslims.[8] Of those, an estimated 87–90% are Sunni[7][137] and 10–13% are Shi'a,[8][7] with a small minority belonging to other sects. Approximately 50 countries are Muslim-majority,[138] and Arabs account for around 20% of all Muslims worldwide.

    The majority of Muslims live in Asia and Africa.[139] Approximately 62% of the world's Muslims live in Asia, with over 683 million adherents in Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.[140][141] In the Middle East, non-Arab countries such as Turkey and Iran are the largest Muslim-majority countries; in Africa, Egypt and Nigeria have the most populous Muslim communities.[142]

    Most estimates indicate that the People's Republic of China has approximately 20 to 30 million Muslims (1.5% to 2% of the population).[143][144][145][146] However, data provided by the San Diego State University's International Population Center to U.S. News & World Report suggests that China has 65.3 million Muslims.[147] Islam is the second largest religion after Christianity in many European countries,[148] and is slowly catching up to that status in the Americas.


    Denominations

    Distribution of Islamic schools and branches in areas where large Muslim population are foundMain article: Islamic schools and branches
    Islam consists of a number of religious denominations that are essentially similar in belief but which have significant theological and legal differences. The primary division is between the Sunni and the Shi'a, with Sufism generally considered to be a mystical inflection of Islam rather than a distinct school. Sunnis make up the largest branch of Islam[137][159][160] followed by the Shi'a[161] and the remaining number may belong to a variety of other Islamic sects.[162]

    Sunni

    Movements in IslamMain article: Sunni Islam
    Sunni Muslims are the largest group in Islam, comprising the vast bulk of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims, hence the title Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamā‘ah (people of the principle and majority). In Arabic, as-Sunnah literally means "principle" or "path". The Qur'an and the Sunnah (the example of Muhammad's life) as recorded in hadith are the primary foundations of Sunni doctrine. Sunnis believe that the first four caliphs were the rightful successors to Muhammad; since God did not specify any particular leaders to succeed him, those leaders had to be elected. Sunnis believe that a caliph should be chosen by the whole community.[137][159]

    There are four recognised madh'habs (schools of thought): Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali. All four accept the validity of the others and a Muslim may choose any one that he or she finds agreeable.[163]

    Shi'a
    Main article: Shia Islam
    The Shi'a constitute 10–13% of Islam[7] and are its second-largest branch.[164] They believe in the political and religious leadership of Imams from the progeny of Ali ibn Abi Talib, who according to most Shi'a are in a state of ismah, meaning infallibility. They believe that Ali ibn Abi Talib, as the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, was his rightful successor, and they call him the first Imam (leader), rejecting the legitimacy of the previous Muslim caliphs. To most Shi'a, an Imam rules by right of divine appointment and holds "absolute spiritual authority" among Muslims, having final say in matters of doctrine and revelation. Shias regard Ali as the prophet's true successor and believe that a caliph is appointed by divine will.[165] Shi'a Islam has several branches, the largest of which is the Twelvers (iṯnāʿašariyya) which the label Shi'a generally refers to. Although the Twelver Shi'a share many core practices with the Sunni, the two branches disagree over the proper importance and validity of specific collections of hadith. The Twelver Shi'a follow a legal tradition called Ja'fari jurisprudence.[166] Other smaller groups include the Ismaili and Zaidi, who differ from Twelvers in both their line of successors and theological beliefs.[167]

    Sufism

    Sufi whirling dervishes in TurkeyMain article: Sufism
    Sufism is a mystical-ascetic approach to Islam that seeks to find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God. By focusing on the more spiritual aspects of religion, Sufis strive to obtain direct experience of God by making use of "intuitive and emotional faculties" that one must be trained to use.[168] Sufism and Islamic law are usually considered to be complementary, although Sufism has been criticized by salafi for what they see as an unjustified religious innovation. Many Sufi orders, or tariqas, can be classified as either Sunni or Shi'a, but others classify themselves simply as 'Sufi'.[169][170] Some Sufi groups can be described as non-Islamic when their teachings are very distinct from Islam.


    Ahmadiyya
    Main article: Ahmadiyya
    Ahmadiyya is an Islamic religious movement founded towards the end of the 19th century and originating with the life and teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835–1908). Ghulam Ahmad was an important religious figure who claimed to have fulfilled the prophecies about the world reformer of the end times, who was to herald the Eschaton as predicted in the traditions of various world religions and bring about the final triumph of Islam as per Islamic prophecy. He claimed that he was the Mujaddid (divine reformer) of the 14th Islamic century, the promised Messiah (“Second Coming of Christ”) and Mahdi awaited by Muslims.[171][172][173][174][175] Ahmadi emphasis lay in the belief that Islam is the final law for humanity as revealed to Muhammad and the necessity of restoring to it its true essence and pristine form, which had been lost through the centuries. Thus, Ahmadis view themselves as leading the revival and peaceful propagation of Islam.[176]

    Others
    There are also Muslims who generally reject the Hadith, often called Quranists.
    The Kharijites are a sect that dates back to the early days of Islam. The only surviving branch of the Kharijites is Ibadism. Unlike most Kharijite groups, Ibadism does not regard sinful Muslims as unbelievers. The Imamate is an important topic in Ibadi legal literature, which stipulates that the leader should be chosen solely on the basis of his knowledge and piety, and is to be deposed if he acts unjustly. Most Ibadi Muslims live in Oman.[177] There are communities of Ibadis that took refuge in the Mzab oases in southern Algeria, the Nafusa Mountains in western Libya, and in Djerba Island (Tunisia), in order to avoid persecution in certain periods of history.[178]
    Other religions
    The Alevi, Yazidi, Druze, Bábí, Bahá'í, Berghouata and Ha-Mim movements either emerged out of Islam or came to share certain beliefs with Islam. Some consider themselves separate while others still sects of Islam though controversial in certain beliefs with mainstream Muslims.
    Wow... Look at this post... Lots of data or FUD? Humm... His posts are beginning to look like the "gypsy's" (no offense to Bo, just making a point here)... Taking up way too much space on the server here... There should be no posting about religion...

    Blahhh Blahhh Blahhh... SOS...

    Your opinions, while quite impassioned, have lost their oomph... Just state your opinion and forgo all the semantics. Wow, listen to me telling you what to do... I'm sure you won't read it when you quote it...

    Perhaps you should run for a political office so you can make decisions without the support of your voting constituents... A true democrat...

    Peace...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  5. #64
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    I HAVE A SNIPER
    "Wow... Look at this post... Lots of data or FUD? Humm... His posts are beginning to look like the "gypsy's" (no offense to Bo, just making a point here)... Taking up way too much space on the server here... There should be no posting about religion...

    Blahhh Blahhh Blahhh... SOS...

    Your opinions, while quite impassioned, have lost their oomph... Just state your opinion and forgo all the semantics. Wow, listen to me telling you what to do... I'm sure you won't read it when you quote it...

    Perhaps you should run for a political office so you can make decisions without the support of your voting constituents... A true democrat..."

    Sorry, I didn't post my source. Here ya go:
    Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Don't like my postings? Then don't read them.

    I would be terrible in public office. I am way to honest, and actually care about people.

    One more thing, the last democrat I voted for was Jimmy Carter. I know, I know, but after Ford let tricky **** off the hook, I couldn't take it. Were you even born then?

  6. #65
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockster20 View Post
    What is with the racist flag in the back window of that PU?

    psst,,,the south didn't win.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    I HAVE A SNIPER
    "Wow... Look at this post... Lots of data or FUD? Humm... His posts are beginning to look like the "gypsy's" (no offense to Bo, just making a point here)... Taking up way too much space on the server here... There should be no posting about religion...

    Blahhh Blahhh Blahhh... SOS...

    Your opinions, while quite impassioned, have lost their oomph... Just state your opinion and forgo all the semantics. Wow, listen to me telling you what to do... I'm sure you won't read it when you quote it...

    Perhaps you should run for a political office so you can make decisions without the support of your voting constituents... A true democrat..."

    Sorry, I didn't post my source. Here ya go:
    Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Don't like my postings? Then don't read them.

    I would be terrible in public office. I am way to honest, and actually care about people.

    One more thing, the last democrat I voted for was Jimmy Carter. I know, I know, but after Ford let tricky **** off the hook, I couldn't take it. Were you even born then?
    Ahhhh. The trumpeting of a true democrat... "For the good of all the people I'll make this decision for you." "After all I know better what you really need." A mosque at the site of the fallen Twin Towers, what a great idea."...

    I like your posts by the way...

    I recall the Carter years, I was alive, but not old enough to make a difference politically. I do remember my father being unhappy with him as most Americans were. I recall the lines at the gas stations etc...Age really matters little in the discussion at hand don't you think?

    Peace...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  9. #68
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post

    where on eath did you get they all want americans dead?

    I can assure you, if the muslims that live here wanted me dead, just like viet nam, I would be out wearing my fanny pack, and Ben Cartright consealment vest looking to take out all them son's of Islam.
    According to the world stat's a full 10%+ of all Muslims are of the Islamic radical sect that preach, teach, and practice Jihad, AKA death to all infidels. It has been on the evening news that they are active in the United States, news crews have managed to sneak into and video one of their rants in a US Mosque. Along that line of reasoning that my friend is the huge majority of the US population which are, and I even have a T shirt saying that.... Infidel.

    That number according to your own figures is actually closer to 157,000,000, so I rounded down a tad in my post... Bottom line is can you tell the difference between the ones on the street that are peaceful and the ones that are not, I sure can't....

    edit: no Icy that is not a racist flag, that is a Confederate battle flag, and although some may wish to distort it as a racist banner, nothing is further from the truth, any racism in this symbol of a bygone era is in the eye of the beholder.... nothing else.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    According to the world stat's a full 10%+ of all Muslims are of the Islamic radical sect that preach, teach, and practice Jihad, AKA death to all infidels. It has been on the evening news that they are active in the United States, news crews have managed to sneak into and video one of their rants in a US Mosque. Along that line of reasoning that my friend is the huge majority of the US population which are, and I even have a T shirt saying that.... Infidel.

    That number according to your own figures is actually closer to 157,000,000, so I rounded down a tad in my post... Bottom line is can you tell the difference between the ones on the street that are peaceful and the ones that are not, I sure can't....
    Please quote your sources regarding these violent people.

    Yes, how do WE tell the difference? I have an idea.

    "Anyone who runs is a radical Muslim. Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined radical Muslim."

    Are we to become the Crazy door-gunner?
    YouTube - The scene in full metal jacket with the crazy door gunner.

  11. #70
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    OK... So we all have pretty strong opinions here... Be they right (in who's eyes?), be they wrong (again in who's eyes?), Be they unpopular (with whom? and why?), be they full of anger and hate, be they peaceful and tolerant, WE ALL HAVE ONE AND ARE ENTITLED TO IT!!! By the fact that we are Americans we have the God given right of free thought and the ability to speak or write our peace...

    I think I'm done with this thread...

    Peace...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

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