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  1. #11
    @pafindr, ill have to check that one out as well.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by pafindr View Post
    Just wanted to clear this up a little. Based on your definition you are not a Metrosexual. A metrosexual goes to the spa, gets his nails done, does the whole "going shopping" thing, etc.
    What you described is actually a Renaissance man: a man whose expertise spans a significant number of different subject areas.
    pafindr, I guess I'll have to agree with you there. Given three hours and only one thing to do, I would choose to send jacketed rounds downrange at tactical targets rather than visiting a spa or having my nails done. I guess I'll have to start using Renaissance Man - that sounds so classy!

    Seriously, though, this is a really good discussion. Actual literary references backing up the statements being made is always a good thing. Many times I've used the analogy of the pendulum swinging too far towards feminism, because I also feel like women should be empowered to do what they want to, but I don't see why organizations like N.O.W. feel like that means that the have to emasculate every single man on Earth.

    I know that industrialization has removed the need for the individual man as hunter and protector in the family. We are no longer necessary for hunting meat for the table and killing predators that try to kill the rest of the family. Men as a whole have replaced these responsibilities vicariously with organized sports or video games as an outlet of their natural aggressions. But then, speaking of that pendulum, any man that did not choose to accept these socially acceptable outlets is made to feel like an "animal" or a "sociopath" because he won't accept wholesale castration, sometimes even by other men who have bought into the "safe society" lie. Some of my favorite reading is The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell, Ph.D. who, believe it or not, used to be the vice-president of the National Organization for Women (N.O.W.), until he saw the truth. The book has tons of facts and figures that are helpful when talking to those you wish to educate.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    So my question is partially what has happened to the "American Male," but moreso, how do we fix it? Also, don't get me wrong, I myself am a "Metrosexual," an all-around male that is fully hetero, shoots, hunts, loves cars, construction and getting dirty, but I can also cook, sew, clean, discuss books, art, likes to read and go antiquing. I think this makes me a better all-around survivalist and it makes me a damnsight more attractive to women, but I would never advocate removing the manly side from any boy or man. The radio announcer asked if we needed to start adding "Man Class" to the curriculum in High School since things like Auto, Metal and Wood shop had all been cut due to budgets. Women seem to have plenty of support for being women...what do you think?

    What is the answer? Humor appreciated, but this is a serious question.

    What do you think the answer is?
    This is a question I've had for years. I've always felt that part of the problem was single-parent families. My father went to jail when I was four and I was raised, with my sister, in the 1950's with no father figure. Believe it or not, I really think one of my "father figures" was Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners." Guess you took what you could get. ANYWAY, I read the following article last month that, I feel, answered a big part of the question you asked:
    Ten Ways Progressive Policies Harm Society's Moral Character
    By Dennis Prager
    7/19/2011
    While liberals are certain about the moral superiority of liberal policies, the truth is that those policies actually diminish a society's moral character. Many individual liberals are fine people, but the policies they advocate tend to make a people worse. Here are 10 reasons:
    1. The bigger the government, the less the citizens do for one another. If the state will take care of me and my neighbors, why should I? This is why Western Europeans, people who have lived in welfare states far longer than Americans have, give less to charity and volunteer less time to others than do Americans of the same socioeconomic status.
    The greatest description of American civilization was written in the early 19th century by the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville. One of the differences distinguishing Americans from Europeans that he most marveled at was how much Americans -- through myriad associations -- took care of one another. Until President Franklin Roosevelt began the seemingly inexorable movement of America toward the European welfare state -- vastly expanded later by other Democratic presidents -- Americans took responsibility for one another and for themselves far more than they do today. Churches, Rotary Clubs, free-loan societies and other voluntary associations were ubiquitous. As the state grew, however, all these associations declined. In Western Europe, they have virtually all disappeared.
    2. The welfare state, though often well intended, is nevertheless a Ponzi scheme. Conservatives have known this for generations. But now, any honest person must acknowledge it. The welfare state is predicated on collecting money from today's workers in order to pay for those who paid in before them. But today's workers don't have enough money to sustain the scheme, and there are too few of them to do so. As a result, virtually every welfare state in Europe, and many American states, like California, are going broke.
    3. Citizens of liberal welfare states become increasingly narcissistic. The great preoccupations of vast numbers of Brits, Frenchmen, Germans and other Western Europeans are how much vacation time they will have and how early they can retire and be supported by the state.
    4. The liberal welfare state makes people disdain work. Americans work considerably harder than Western Europeans, and contrary to liberal thought since Karl Marx, work builds character.
    5. Nothing more guarantees the erosion of character than getting something for nothing. In the liberal welfare state, one develops an entitlement mentality -- another expression of narcissism. And the rhetoric of liberalism -- labeling each new entitlement a "right" -- reinforces this sense of entitlement.
    6. The bigger the government, the more the corruption. As the famous truism goes, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Of course, big businesses are also often corrupt. But they are eventually caught or go out of business. The government cannot go out of business. And unlike corrupt governments, corrupt businesses cannot print money and thereby devalue a nation's currency, and they cannot arrest you.
    7. The welfare state corrupts family life. Even many Democrats have acknowledged the destructive consequences of the welfare state on the underclass. It has rendered vast numbers of males unnecessary to females, who have looked to the state to support them and their children (and the more children, the more state support) rather than to husbands. In effect, these women took the state as their husband.
    8. The welfare state inhibits the maturation of its young citizens into responsible adults. As regards men specifically, I was raised, as were all generations of American men before me, to aspire to work hard in order to marry and support a wife and children. No more. One of the reasons many single women lament the prevalence of boy-men -- men who have not grown up -- is that the liberal state has told men they don't have to support anybody. They are free to remain boys for as long as they want.
    And here is an example regarding both sexes. The loudest and most sustained applause I ever heard was that of college students responding to a speech by President Barack Obama informing them that they would now be covered by their parents' health insurance policies until age 26.
    9. As a result of the left's sympathetic views of pacifism and because almost no welfare state can afford a strong military, European countries rely on America to fight the world's evils and even to defend them.
    10. The leftist "weltanschauung" sees society's and the world's great battle as between rich and poor rather than between good and evil. Equality therefore trumps morality. This is what produces the morally confused liberal elites that can venerate a Cuban tyranny with its egalitarian society over a free and decent America that has greater inequality.
    None of this matters to progressives. Against all this destructiveness, they will respond not with arguments to refute these consequences of the liberal welfare state, but by citing the terms "social justice" and "compassion," and by labeling their opponents "selfish" and worse.
    If you want to feel good, liberalism is awesome. If you want to do good, it is largely awful.
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis1209 View Post
    It all started with the intervention of the Federal Government in the public school system. You wouldn't believe some of the crap some public schools have adopted. Now these public indoctrinated kids have been entering the government and private sectors. When I was a kid (milk was delivered to your home), we played outside all day and got into the occasional rumble. These days, most kids are in front of the TV, XYZ Box, computer most the time and have become sissified. IMO...
    Amen, brother. I know of a high school principal who said, in a meeting, that the purpose of public schools is NOT Education; the purpose of public schools is to promote social justice.
    Charlie

  6. #15
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    Much of the problem is self fulfilling with the lack of a man in the family keeping the kids from benefiting from the ideal family structure, a father and a mother. It hurts both boys and girls.
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
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    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  7. Quote Originally Posted by pafindr View Post
    Just wanted to clear this up a little. Based on your definition you are not a Metrosexual. A metrosexual goes to the spa, gets his nails done, does the whole "going shopping" thing, etc.
    What you described is actually a Renaissance man: a man whose expertise spans a significant number of different subject areas.
    What's wrong with the whole "going shopping" thing??

    She goes to the mall, I go to Cabela's or Bass Pro. I can spend more time and more money shopping than she can any day of the week. :)

  8. #17
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    [QUOTE=localgirl;223399]I could ramble on for hours about this topic, but it all boils down to a very simple answer: if you want to see "men" in the world, you have to raise them. ....QUOTE]
    I agree with you, raise them! You don't need another woman or women don't another man to raise a child when the child is already there...right values, right morals, integrity -- it is a better to raise a child alone than a child be raised in a dysfunctional home whose parents are always fighting and none have any integrity nor even respect for one another. At least you can instill your values on each of the child you are raising. At least teach him/her right from wrong. And to boot, how to be a leader of men.

    Someone said to me today (must be an Aussie friend of mine...) If the global crisis continues at the present rate, by the end of this year only two banks will be left operational ..... the Blood Bank and the Sperm Bank! Before you know it, these two will merge, and the whole place will be full of bloody wankers.
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

  9. #18
    Dcselby1, what a GREAT article! Thank you for posting it - I'm going to be thinking about this all day.

  10. #19
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    I remember my shop teacher, who was missing part of his index finger.

    I think about my wife as a teenager. Her father had died and she changed her own tires and put in a starter. She was more boy than a lot of guys I knew. Horses, guns, dirt bikes, baseball... I knew she was the gal for me!

    How about NYC where some men's idea of roughing it is getting their Italian loafers wet.

    Political correctness is trying to convince someone it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcselby1 View Post
    This is a question I've had for years. I've always felt that part of the problem was single-parent families. My father went to jail when I was four and I was raised, with my sister, in the 1950's with no father figure. Believe it or not, I really think one of my "father figures" was Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners." Guess you took what you could get. ANYWAY, I read the following article last month that, I feel, answered a big part of the question you asked:
    Ten Ways Progressive Policies Harm Society's Moral Character
    By Dennis Prager
    7/19/2011
    While liberals are certain about the moral superiority of liberal policies, the truth is that those policies actually diminish a society's moral character. Many individual liberals are fine people, but the policies they advocate tend to make a people worse. Here are 10 reasons:
    1. The bigger the government, the less the citizens do for one another. If the state will take care of me and my neighbors, why should I? This is why Western Europeans, people who have lived in welfare states far longer than Americans have, give less to charity and volunteer less time to others than do Americans of the same socioeconomic status.
    The greatest description of American civilization was written in the early 19th century by the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville. One of the differences distinguishing Americans from Europeans that he most marveled at was how much Americans -- through myriad associations -- took care of one another. Until President Franklin Roosevelt began the seemingly inexorable movement of America toward the European welfare state -- vastly expanded later by other Democratic presidents -- Americans took responsibility for one another and for themselves far more than they do today. Churches, Rotary Clubs, free-loan societies and other voluntary associations were ubiquitous. As the state grew, however, all these associations declined. In Western Europe, they have virtually all disappeared.
    2. The welfare state, though often well intended, is nevertheless a Ponzi scheme. Conservatives have known this for generations. But now, any honest person must acknowledge it. The welfare state is predicated on collecting money from today's workers in order to pay for those who paid in before them. But today's workers don't have enough money to sustain the scheme, and there are too few of them to do so. As a result, virtually every welfare state in Europe, and many American states, like California, are going broke.
    3. Citizens of liberal welfare states become increasingly narcissistic. The great preoccupations of vast numbers of Brits, Frenchmen, Germans and other Western Europeans are how much vacation time they will have and how early they can retire and be supported by the state.
    4. The liberal welfare state makes people disdain work. Americans work considerably harder than Western Europeans, and contrary to liberal thought since Karl Marx, work builds character.
    5. Nothing more guarantees the erosion of character than getting something for nothing. In the liberal welfare state, one develops an entitlement mentality -- another expression of narcissism. And the rhetoric of liberalism -- labeling each new entitlement a "right" -- reinforces this sense of entitlement.
    6. The bigger the government, the more the corruption. As the famous truism goes, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Of course, big businesses are also often corrupt. But they are eventually caught or go out of business. The government cannot go out of business. And unlike corrupt governments, corrupt businesses cannot print money and thereby devalue a nation's currency, and they cannot arrest you.
    7. The welfare state corrupts family life. Even many Democrats have acknowledged the destructive consequences of the welfare state on the underclass. It has rendered vast numbers of males unnecessary to females, who have looked to the state to support them and their children (and the more children, the more state support) rather than to husbands. In effect, these women took the state as their husband.
    8. The welfare state inhibits the maturation of its young citizens into responsible adults. As regards men specifically, I was raised, as were all generations of American men before me, to aspire to work hard in order to marry and support a wife and children. No more. One of the reasons many single women lament the prevalence of boy-men -- men who have not grown up -- is that the liberal state has told men they don't have to support anybody. They are free to remain boys for as long as they want.
    And here is an example regarding both sexes. The loudest and most sustained applause I ever heard was that of college students responding to a speech by President Barack Obama informing them that they would now be covered by their parents' health insurance policies until age 26.
    9. As a result of the left's sympathetic views of pacifism and because almost no welfare state can afford a strong military, European countries rely on America to fight the world's evils and even to defend them.
    10. The leftist "weltanschauung" sees society's and the world's great battle as between rich and poor rather than between good and evil. Equality therefore trumps morality. This is what produces the morally confused liberal elites that can venerate a Cuban tyranny with its egalitarian society over a free and decent America that has greater inequality.
    None of this matters to progressives. Against all this destructiveness, they will respond not with arguments to refute these consequences of the liberal welfare state, but by citing the terms "social justice" and "compassion," and by labeling their opponents "selfish" and worse.
    If you want to feel good, liberalism is awesome. If you want to do good, it is largely awful.
    Now THAT'S an answer!! +1
    1)"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -Thomas Jefferson.
    2)"Imagine how gun control might be stomped if GOA or SAF had the (compromising) NRA's 4 million members!" -Me. http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/nraletter.htm

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