Judge says UC can deny religious course credit - Page 2
Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 84

Thread: Judge says UC can deny religious course credit

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,650
    Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    I was going to try to stay out of this one as holy wars are a philosophical bridge to no where but Friedrich Nietzsche said it best...

    "There are people who want to make men's lives more difficult for no other reason than the chance it provides them afterwards to offer their prescription for alleviating life; their Christianity, for instance."

    Yes, I agree with the ruling. Religion has no place in a public education system. One of the few times I find the 9th Circuit is right.
    Can you tell me where the Constitution says that? And don't say that the part of the First Amendment that says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." as your evidence. What that portion of the First Amendment means is that Congress cannot establish a national church, in direct response to the Anglican church being established as the national church in England. While I do agree that public schools should not be used to indoctrinate students, offering courses in religion that students take willingly and voluntarily has nothing at all to do with Congress establishing a national church.

  2.   
  3. #12
    So if there was a Pagan Biology course.....should they receive credit for that?

    I also agree with the ruling.

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,437
    The school's accreditation is really what should matter here. If the school is properly approved by whatever agency they use (here in FL we have SACS), then acceptance of credit shouldn't be an issue.

    I went to a small public school...we learned about evolution but some of the teachers had objections and voiced their religious opinions. Even with "both views", we still didn't learn to think critically and in reality, the course credits probably shouldn't be accepted by any university. We were accredited though, and on paper, that's all that matters. That stupid method can't be much worse than looking at the textbooks though.

    Critical thinking doesn't come out of a textbook or "multiple views" - it has much more to do with actual teaching technique and the students themselves. The discussion about education in this country needs to get past the vast oversimplifications that seem to characterize almost every political issue.

  5. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Green Valley (Henderson) NV
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Well then you are at odds with a lot of the writings of our founding fathers. You are entitled to your opinion. That is one of two things we all have. As long as you understand that is your opinion and not that of the Constitution or most of the of the founding fathers. No where in the Constitution is the phrase Separation of Church and State.
    The Constitution is an evolutionary document. Here is the history of how we arrived at seperation of church and state. You have to look at the Constitution and subsequent case law as a whole, not pick and choose what fits your agenda or beliefs.
    The patriots that wrote it were not trying to establish freedom from religion but rather freedom to worship as we pleased. And as usual the 9Th Circuit was wrong.
    The quotes you cited are irrelevant to the Constitution and the law as it is today.
    Last edited by netentity; 08-14-2008 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Fixed link.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Green Valley (Henderson) NV
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Can you tell me where the Constitution says that? And don't say that the part of the First Amendment that says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." as your evidence. What that portion of the First Amendment means is that Congress cannot establish a national church, in direct response to the Anglican church being established as the national church in England. While I do agree that public schools should not be used to indoctrinate students, offering courses in religion that students take willingly and voluntarily has nothing at all to do with Congress establishing a national church.
    Right here. You have to look at the Constitution and court rulings as a whole and how it applies today. Seperation of church and state was derived from the 14th amendment and several landmark Supreme Court rulings. You cannot cherry pick what portions of the Constitution fit your agenda or beliefs. It needs to be looked at as a whole.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    Right here. You have to look at the Constitution and court rulings as a whole and how it applies today. Seperation of church and state was derived from the 14th amendment and several landmark Supreme Court rulings. You cannot cherry pick what portions of the Constitution fit your agenda or beliefs. It needs to be looked at as a whole.
    A lot has happened over the years and a lot of bad rulings from the Supreme Court has been handed down. Do I have to remind most here that. I think not. Original intent is what you need to look at. Like the beauraucrats that run our government the Supreme Court is not what is was in the beginning of our country. Our country has been high jacked by an ungodly group of One World Government, NWO global elitists.
    Leaving your Christianity at home when you leave the house and head to the work place even if it is the government was never the intent of the founding fathers


    By the way the term Separation of church and state came from a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Ana Baptists
    Last edited by HK4U; 08-14-2008 at 11:15 AM. Reason: add
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. Very good HK. Lets hope the constitution is not a ever changing form. It may change to read no gun at all.

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Иєш Лєяжşєşŧăŋ
    Posts
    1,084
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    It is funny how we here the term seperation of church and state talked about in relation to the first amendment when it is no where there to be found.
    IMHO, the phrase "Congress shall make no law..." [emphasis added] was expressed that way not to keep Religion out of the business of the State, but to keep the State out of the business of Religion! A very important distinction if you ask me.

    Also, if it is true that the percieved limitations of Christian religious teachings are so abhorrent to this Instutution of 'Higher Learning' that their students are unacceptable to them, then the same must be true of, for example, students of a Muslim school education, which teaches a much narrower view of the world, indeed!

    Or do they have some excuse for tolerating those views?
    Last edited by Ektarr; 08-14-2008 at 02:18 PM.
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

  10. #19
    IMHO, the phrase "Congress shall make no law..." [emphasis added] was expressed that way not to keep Religion out of the business of the State, but to keep the State out of the business of Religion! A very important distinction if you ask me.

    Very good point Ektaar and one often missed by a lot of people today.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Green Valley (Henderson) NV
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    A lot has happened over the years and a lot of bad rulings from the Supreme Court has been handed down. Do I have to remind most here that. I think not.
    Some of us don't view this ruling as bad. Need I remind you that the Supreme Court also ruled in our favor for Heller.
    Original intent is what you need to look at.
    Original intent? Slavery and women not having the right to vote were Constitutional at that time. Do you also condone those activities or beliefs?
    Leaving your Christianity at home when you leave the house and head to the work place even if it is the government was never the intent of the founding fathers.
    Some of us have no Christianity nor care to be any part of it. I do not need a religion to distinguish between right and wrong. It is also not my place nor is it the US or State government to decide which religion is the correct preferred one which is the original intent of the 1A. Need I also remind you that differing religions in the workplace causes conflict. It is in the best interest of order that the workplace as well as government be neutral to religion.

    I am not going to deny the historic origins of the Constitution and that the founding fathers were predominately Christian. We are dealing with the law as it stands today. No religion has any place getting a portion of the tax dollars I pay. You have the right to practice whatever religion or no religion you wish. However that stops where another person's rights begin as it interferes with the life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in our Declaration of Independence which predates the Constitution.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast