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Thread: Common Core Standards

  1. #11
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    That's an interesting article. I will say though, one more usurping of the Constitution was the Federal Government creating the Federal Department of Education. I'm not a fan, as a civilian, as a teacher, as a Constitutionalist. In the 1950's and 1960's the Federal government deemed it necessary to further math and science because of the space race. The country, in fear of the red threat, deemed this a good idea and took the Federal money into their schools. But in 1979, the Dept of Education became a Federal cabinet position. This is where the true erosion started to happen to our educational system.

    Education is, and always has been best served at the local level. Let me give an example in my field, since that's what I know best. If I'm teaching physics in a rural farm town, I'm going to be using examples that include farm equipment in my lessons and demonstrations. Our local teachers and administration know the types of students we have and what background they have to relate the material to them. But this concerns lessons and curriculum. The standards reached should be the same in a high school physics class in rural town USA as well as any urban city.

    The Federal government is so far removed from the needs of the local communities to effectively impart any decisions on education concerning the curriculum taught. I believe the biggest gaffe to demonstrate this was "No Child Left Behind". All this did was lower standards in schools so the lowest child could jump over the bar. In other cases, where the bar wasn't dropped, we saw higher drop out rates for the kids who either couldn't or wouldn't be pushed to do better. Is this a better alternative? Either way, that program sounded great and was "touchy-feely" but the meat and substance wasn't there.

    Now we are at the Common Core. These are standards either in Mathematics or English that not all states have adopted, but most have. On the surface, standards are not a bad thing. They give us clear and definitive goals that students should attain at certain grade levels. My position in this thread has always been, read the standards (I've provided the link to them) and tell me where the insidious evilness lies within them. Having a common goal to reach for students in rural town USA vs an urban city school is not necessarily a bad thing.

    However, if I had any beef with these standards, it would be this. The Dept of Education at the Federal level is un-Constitutional. It breaches the 10th Amendment. It takes away the State's rights to govern education. Therefore, anything out of the Dept of Education should be considered null and void. This would include America 2000, No Child Left Behind, Common Core, and all that Federal money that pours into the State's education budgets. Oops, that last one is a tough pill to swallow.

    The question then remains, how do we make sure that their aren't large discrepancies in education among students across the country? The answer becomes the states would have to collaborate on what the standards should be. I have always been an advocate that the states should make their own decisions and have the Federal Government stay out of what they shouldn't be into.

    Concerning the article you sent me to read, it is very possible that with an entity that is extremely nefarious, it could create a system of National Standards that was innocuous at first. Then when the country got used to having a true national set of standards (which won't happen since there are a handful of states that will never accept them) then the Federal government could change them ever so slightly to start implementing their own agenda into them. Looking at history though, is this much different than Ben Franklin's idea of educating the states children to give them a sense of nationalism?

    Summation:
    - Federal government should be out of education all together
    - National standards are a good thing to have some uniformity as to the levels students reach
    - States should govern what these national standards are and not the federal government
    - How do states make up for that huge vacuum of lost Federal money?
    - How do we get the states to collaborate on creating equitable educational standards?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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  3. #12
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    I'm not ignoring the rest of that finely-written post, but just a couple of points on your summation that stand out to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    Summation:
    - Federal government should be out of education all together
    - National standards are a good thing to have some uniformity as to the levels students reach
    How are these two thoughts not mutually exclusive? When I think of the word "national" in this context, I think of the federal government having WAY more influence than I would ever want, but more importantly, WAY more influence than the Constitution provides the .fedgov authorization for.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    - States should govern what these national standards are and not the federal government
    Kind of the same thought - I really don't get this. I would say each individual state should govern the education system that suits its individual populace, geography and affordability. I don't know why the word "national" has to come into it at all, except for the fact that the unconstitutional DoE has become so ubiquitous in the minds of Americans since its inclusion as a cabinet level Executive department in 1953. The passage of time doesn't diminish its unconstitutionality in my mind though, so again, I don't understand beyond the kind of national consciousness that Franklin spoke of why we need (or would want) "national" standards at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    - How do states make up for that huge vacuum of lost Federal money?
    Look at your own signature. Isn't relying on the federal government for anything non-defense-related really based in an insecurity that states can't raise the money or perform the responsibilities as well as the .fedgov? And how does the .fedgov raise that money to support providing that "security" to begin with? By over-taxing the other 49 states to send money to the one state feeling the insecurity! Abolish the DoE and return the power of education back to more local control and responsibility, and when states aren't sending billions upon billions of dollars to the .fedgov, they can spend it on their own fully-customizable system that can be tweaked any way they see fit to best serve their own needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    - How do we get the states to collaborate on creating equitable educational standards?
    Like I said, we don't have kids (and I'm pretty sure you said y'all don't either, right?), but if we did, I would fight tooth and nail any standards that my state adopted which give equal weight to CA's, NY's, CT's, HI's and other leftist stronghold's "standards" as the much more conservative mores and values that would be at least present, if not promoted, down here in Dixieland.

    I'll mention a subject for which your discipline comes into play in the wider debate, that being physics. I have no idea how you feel about global warming and the trillions of dollars worth of pressure it has put on our economy over the last 30 years or so, but many physicists are on the "pro" side of spending those dollars to "defeat" global warming. Physics is an advanced math science, right? And as such, students already are being influenced by national standards (whether or not they are benchmark types of mandates) contained in Common Core, right? Why would I as a parent who thinks global warming is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind want my kid(s) exposed to "science" that comports with supporting that scam?

    I just don't see the benefit to nationally-standardized education, whether we're talking about just general goals or benchmark mandates. It kills state sovereignty, it gives credence to ideologies that don't comport with local lexicons (and that goes both ways - conservative > leftist or leftist > conservative), and if a coalition of states wanted to get together and team up on standards, they can do those kinds of arrangements without having to go fully national.

    In short, there just aren't that many states that I would be comfortable with influencing my kids' learning processes. The more autonomous states are, the more competition for them to draw families in with it, which in turn creates a self-regenerating tax base. Standardization stifles competition and incorporates all kinds of issues some parts of the country want no part of, while other parts think they're being short-changed on. I just don't see a need or benefit to nationwide standards, whether you put "Common Core" on the front of the publication, or any other "acceptable" ideas for all states and locales to be corralled into.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  4. #13
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    As to the many points you make about not having a national set of standards, my only reply to that is this:
    If student X in CA is taking an Algebra 2 class, and student Y in FL is taking an Algebra 2 class, we should have a uniform set of standards across the nation (that the states agree to, which I also said would most likely never happen, and should never be created by the Federal government) so that when both of these student try to apply to a college or university, then there is no question that each of these student met a certain level of criteria. That's what standards do. Unfortunately, what we have now are situations where a valedictorian of a school could actually be less prepared in his studies than another student who isn't even in the top 20% of his class due to the disparity of the courses taught across the country. I've seen this time and time again. In addition, suppose student X in CA has a family that moves 1/2 way through the school year to a school in FL. There shouldn't be a difficult transition from the Algebra 2 class he was taking in CA vs the one in FL. However, every year we have students transferring into the school I teach, and they are no where close to what we are doing.

    Your example of global warming is an interesting one. I get your message and understand your conviction and completely agree with you, except for who is touting the BS. It's actually more environmental scientists, biologists, and climatologists ramming that nonsense down people's throats. Could I find physicists that have spoke up in fear of it? Yes, most of them would lose substantial research money if they didn't. It's a crock. However, as I've been saying, global warming should never even be questioned regarding standards. Standards would and should never include information that specific. That type of information would be left to the individual schools as to whether it makes it into their curriculum. Let me share with you a standard in math so you get the idea that it has nothing to do with content:

    Creating Equations★ A -CED
    Create equations that describe numbers or relationships
    1. Create equations and inequalities in one variable and use them to
    solve problems. Include equations arising from linear and quadratic
    functions, and simple rational and exponential functions.
    2. Create equations in two or more variables to represent relationships
    between quantities; graph equations on coordinate axes with labels
    and scales.

    As you can see, they do not include content. They state what standard the student needs to reach. Now it's up to the teachers in the math department to work collectively to create a curriculum specifically for their school, with their students in mind, with their demographic in mind to reach that standard along with all the other ones for that class. You, as a concerned citizen, if you find out that your school used global warming data in order for the students to create the equations to meet the standard above, could then go to the school board and raise blue bloody hell. The standards themselves do not and should not have ideology in them, only levels to reach.

    Again, I repeat my position on national vs. federal. The standards should be created by the states only and have all of the states' input as to what standards (not content, not ideologies) a student needs to reach for a specific class. Failure to do so creates massive inequities in children's education across the nation. Universities and colleges therefore do not have appropriate benchmarks to determine legitimacy in their institution. In addition, when children move from one district to another there should be a smooth transition. It is anything but now. The federal government should never be a part creating these standards for the states. I also repeat, that it will be near impossible for this ever to get accomplished since the 50 states will most likely never work together since it is easier to suck off the teat of the federal government that gives them their state educational money and for the fact that many states will never see eye to eye about anything.

    I'd love to hear any ideas on how to dismantle the Federal Dept. of Education. (legal ones folks)

    I completely agree with your assessment of the monies. This would take some considerable time and tightening of our belts until the states declare their independence once again. But the theme is correct and the ideology has been verified to work and work well.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  5. #14
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    Well, again, News With Views provides the big-picture that I think I was instinctively suspicious of concerning Common Core specifically, and nationalized standards in general.

    This thread takes only the Common Core Standards into consideration and seeks to judge the program on its own merits, disregarding the origins of it or how it fits into a larger globalist, collectivist model for not only education, but for standardizing world citizenship, behavior, and for creating a submission/subservience-minded drone society committed to the "greater good." Coincidentally, it turns out that much of the US's "proving grounds" for development of a program that could begin in a free country with the intention of standardizing the drone-creation processes of globalist, socialist and full-on Marxist countries, were study groups, think-tanks and curricula-creators right there in Pennsylvania, Wolf.

    I looked for a perfectly salient quote from the above link to post here as a way to pique interest and get people to go read it. I particularly hope you, Wolf, will read it carefully. It is not a piece that can be well understood by skimming it over. Anyway, the PA connection is chronicled in Part 1, but the best quote I could find that sort of sums up the overall goals of the wider indoctrination program that Common Core is a part of says this:

    Critical inquiry, also known as higher order thinking skills, universal democratic principles, deliberation and bridge building across differences, are central to building world citizenship. The new degree is called the Degree Qualification Profile.(page 54) Read the complete list of international values that each college student must attain for their degree listed in the Crucible document:

    Focus on this partial list:

    Respect for freedom & human dignity,
    Empathy,
    Open-mindedness,Tolerance, Justice, Equality, Ethical integrity,
    Responsibility to a larger good,
    Collective Action,
    Integration of knowledge, skills, and examined values to inform actions taken in concert with other people,
    Moral discernment and behavior,
    Navigation of political systems and processes, both formal and informal,
    Public problem solving with diverse partners,
    Compromise, civility, and mutual respect.

    This is the EQA, the NAEP, and the Common Core-College and Career Ready Standards for college students. How do you measure and score integrity, empathy and justice or other subjective values? Here we go again. The push is on to psychoanalyze and internationalize college students, too. (Just in case a student from homeschool or a Christian school slipped through the cracks.)

    There is much, much more at the link which is needed to understand how the author arrived at the connections she draws between various study groups and institutions, but clearly, the goals of Common Core through a wider globalist effort, are to manipulate and indoctrinate kids to be accepting of everything that weakens American values, religious values, individuality and critical thinking skills.

    Common Core cannot be evaluated standing on its own. It is inextricably entwined as a component of a globalist, collectivist program intended, in part, to contribute to the fall of individual freedom and state/country sovereignty.

    "National standards" is nothing more than a stepping stone to global standards, and those "standards" go far beyond basic concepts of how best to educate young folk - they get right down to the core of how to isolate individual students who "need" a stronger set of indoctrination techniques to break through their natural or parent/community-influenced individualism. This is the Borg come to real life, people. Your kids will be assimilated!

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #15
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    The one thing missing is the family unit. We can't legislate good parenting.
    .
    Make sure you know what's going-on in your kids' schools. Be involved in discussions at home about subject matter. Engage them. Set an example for kids to follow. Be at home, sober. Clean-up the home and property. Put a meal on the table every night. Keep the kids close to home and not wandering bad areas at night. Toss-out the gangsta-acting friends. Make sure the homework is done every night. Pound the importance of education into their little brains from the time they can talk. Push college or a trade on them. Help them find sources of educational funding. Kids in a caring environment will achieve better grades than those left to the streets. And finally...... stop protecting, coddling and entitling them. No more trophy for showing-up. No more five strikes to an out. Start keeping score in the game because when these kids become adults life IS keeping score... and they're not prepared for failure. How will they handle the adult bully when we coddle their little feelings. Life is full of disappointment and failure. And it's our generation that screwed this up.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  7. #16
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    Boy! Was that ever an eloquent, seemingly informed avoidance of all the documented connections to globalist, socialist and Marxist goals for America that Common Core combines with international governments and organizations to create, as-chronicled at the link in my Post #15.

    You could have saved a lot of time and eye-strain on the part of your readers by just saying, "Yay globalism, collectivism and Marxism!" nosreme.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. #17
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    I need some time to digest the article you quoted. But I have not disregarded the origins of the Common Core. The origins are the governors from many states got together with experts in English and Mathematics to develop standards for education. This started at the state level, not a national level. The states saw a need for Johnny X in state X having similar standards when taking a Geometry class as Susie Y in state Y. To this date, not all states have adopted them, nor do I believe all will. When they were implemented the voice of the people was surely allowed when it was going through the state legislative system, however the powers of education are on the shoulders of both the state and the local governments. I agree, at the local level, at the school board, once they were implemented, there no longer was a voice against them.

    I will read what you gave me when I have the time to thoroughly digest it.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  9. #18
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    I haven't gotten fully through her article yet because I was doing fact checking. She quotes HR5 and SB1049 as funding for the Common Core Standards. I found this odd right up front since the standards have been adopted three years ago and HR5 was written this year. So I read HR5 before finishing the article you linked.

    Here's a quote directly out of HR5:
    H.R. 5 maintains and protects state and local autonomy by: (1) prohibiting the Secretary from imposing conditions, including conditions involving Common Core and other state standards and assessments; (2) preventing the Secretary from creating additional burdens on states and school districts through the regulatory process; (3) prohibiting the Secretary from demanding changes to state standards and coercing states to enter into partnership with other states; and (4) outlining specific procedures the Secretary must follow when issuing federal regulations and conducting the peer review process.

    So here it specifically limits the Secretary of Education's powers, and specifically says that the states and local governments have autonomy.

    SB1094 is a bit more subversive (considering that it is a Federal mandate on something that is supposed to be state and locally controlled by the Constitution): A summary of the bill states that states must maintain a set of standards (no where does it mention that it must be Common Core) and that the schools are held culpable to showing success with those standards.

    The problem I then have with the rest of Anta Hoge's article is that she uses these two bills as her evidence that the Federal government "will ultimately have total control of education, nationalizing education in the United States of America. Common Core will be used to TRACK individual students to meet individual standards."

    The first bill specifically says the Secretary is prohibited from mandating what standards states adopt and the second bill doesn't even mention that they have to be Common Core, just that states maintain some sort of standards.

    Therefore, since her basis of her argument is flawed, then her suppositions made on that basis are null.

    I will continue going through her article more closely and read the link within the article.

    Thank you for arguing well. You're one of the few on this forum that I really enjoy reading arguments from and being involved in arguments with.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    I just have no idea how 10th graders needing to understand certain algebraic principals is an "insidious plan of the Federal government". Damn them... maybe if the students learn math, they will understand that the statistics that the government provides are false and inaccurate.

    I provided the links to the standards. Please, I invite you to read them and show me where the evil shadow is lurking in these standards. Like I said, I have poured through the math standards since this affects me in my teaching and there is nothing out of the ordinary that I have seen. However, I'm human and have made mistakes. If you can find something that should be alarming to me, please point it out. I'd love to know so I can share it with my colleagues.
    Because by tenth grade they should be learning at least Trig. You're catering to the lowest common denominator.
    No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #20
    I don't believe the Federal Government has any business sticking it's nose into the education system. If you look at history, prior to Carter's introduction of the Department of Education, the US educational performance levels were much, much higher than they are today. After the creation of the DoE, things started going rapidly downhill, and have continued t do so right to the current day. There is nothing the federal government can do that private industry can't do faster, better, and cheaper. This is why Libertarianism will always beat Socialism.
    No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
    Robert A. Heinlein

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