Two Muslim Holy Days Will Become Official New York City School Holidays - Page 3
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Thread: Two Muslim Holy Days Will Become Official New York City School Holidays

  1. Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    By definition the word Islam is the religion of the Muslim people. The word Muslim by definition are those people who follow the religion of Islam.

    So your statement that all Muslim people are not of Islam flies in the the face of both the definition of Muslim and Islam.

    Therefore, we are sitting here and all saying WTF???? to your original post. The fact that you came back and tried to defend your ignorance of those two words tells me that you are unwilling to learn. Please do your own research as to what each of those words means, and then come back and try to use them correctly. Failure to do so will mean that you wish to remain ignorant.

    Now if you mean that there are Christians being persecuted in countries whose people are predominantly followers of Islam, this is a completely different point, but those Christians would never be called Muslim, and to do so is reprehensible and vile to anyone who is a follower of Christ. Regardless, the way you have put things, I'm still sitting here going WTF???
    I do not even know where to start. For the record, I am a devout Christian, not by name but by practice in the fervent believe that God gave his son Jesus Christ so that I could claim through my belief in him an everlasting life in his presence. The fact is that. I am redeemed by the blood of Christ that was shed for me. Now you may now chose to attack my theology but I feel it is important to make this very clear. That being said, in as Christian like manner as possible, and I often find this difficult, I loathe the Islamic faith. I loath the Muslim people. This with the exception of the Christians whom happen to be muslim currently suffering persecution by those of islamic faith. Do not for a minute feel as though I am not aware of what you are saying with regards to Muslim and Islam being mutually exclusive. I understand this concept and premise. Likewise, I understand that the term muslim does not refer to a specific region of the world and typically would not be used in the same context as Afghani or Iranian or Iraqi rather it is a reference to a people whom have prescribed to an Islamic faith. As Christians we are called on to refuse the concept of hate towards any of Gods people and as such must be cautious about how that distain is revealed. You remember....hate the sin not the sinner. Well in reconciling this I hate islam not the Muslim people. Would you not agree that one can be of Islam but not Muslim? Therefore, in the same vein it should not be beyond your comprehension that a Muslim can chose to not be of islam as so many of these Christians have converted to Christianity from Islam does that instantly mean that they are suddenly not Muslim? What i1t does mean is that in Jesus name they are suffering persecution at the hand of Islamist as well as fellow muslims but they are most definitely not mutually exclusive. Are the hoards of islamists being recruited in our prisons muslim? Are you suggesting because they are foolish enough to fall prey to the vile belief system they are instantly muslims? I am afraid you would have to reconcile this thought to me as i find that assertion simply bizarre. Or perhaps you are suggesting just the opposite, that once you adopt 1i11slm you become muslim? MUSLIM DEFINES A PEOPLE not a religion. ISLAM DEFINES A RELIGION NOT A PEOPLE. It may very well be true that many or most muslim people are of Islamic faith but this is not always the case. Which of course was my original position. Do you believe that all Palestinians are Muslim? This is not like the Jews, you cannot be a Jew and not be Jewish, you however can be Jewish and not a Jew, simply by merits of your belief system you are not a Jew, you are Jewish. Is Walid Shoebat not a Muslim from Pakistan? Better yet, we would not properly say that Barack Obama is Muslim, we would say he is an Islamist or of islamic faith.

    I do not want to beat a dead camel here, but as far as I am concerned there is a great truth in what I have tried to convey to you under such hostile challenge. Rest assured my credentials to have this discussion are secure and well respected in thinking forums, I apologize for bringing this here but it was never intended to blow up. I am just not one to sit back and be ridiculed for my positions and truths. So, I took the bait and as such will pay the price. Believe what you chose. Challenge what you wish. In addition to being a Christian who fails everyday in his lifetime walk I have spent my share of time in their world, I learned hate these stinking savages that operate under the cloak of their religion of Islam. In part I also draw this conclusion because as a Christian I cannot hate these muslim children, I can however hate Islam and rest assured there is a need to differentiate between the two. So now for my falling, I believe most of you that have commented are simply a bunch of nitwits within your little high school style click within a forum intended for fellowship and exchanges. I can clearly see that is not what this place is about and as such will remove myself. If you wish to reply comment or discuss feel free to email me, but come to me with respect or take your boot attitude on to somewhere else I will leave you now to spend the balance of your time discrediting what you clearly do not understand. And take potshots at me for my views simply because you cannot grasp a concept or they do not agree with them. So in your immortal words wise up pal!

    The bottom line here, if you as professed Christians, I ask only that to speak with the leadership of your faith, as a Christian ask them to unite and to speak out against this persecution of Christians. Demand that some action be taken and as a faith we rise up so that te world will know as Christians we are unwilling to sit by and witness this attempt to eradicate our faith and our people in the name of islam. This is all I ask, and if happens at my ridicule ad expense I can live with that. If you are a Christian you must stand up against this, how could you call yourself such if you did not'?
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarnij View Post
    MUSLIM DEFINES A PEOPLE not a religion. ISLAM DEFINES A RELIGION NOT A PEOPLE.
    I sincerely hope you stay long enough to read and understand this. The above is the source of our disagreement, or misunderstanding, whatever it is.

    Regardless of the laudable desire to spread awareness of the plight of Christians overseas, the above is simply mistaken. It seems like you're confusing being born in an islamic (run) country with being a muslim citizen of that country, like being born in America makes us Americans. I don't know because the plain and simple fact is, we have a completely different understanding of what the word "muslim" really means. Everyone on this forum would agree with the following statements, except for you Kaarnij:

    AMERICAN DESCRIBES A PEOPLE not a religion.

    CHRISTIANITY DESCRIBES A RELIGION, not a People.

    THE CONSTITUTION DEFINES AMERICA.

    THE HOLY BIBLE DEFINES CHRISTIANITY.

    CHRISTIAN DEFINES an individual follower of the Holy Bible.

    If I'm a Christian, I must remain adherent of the Holy Bible. If I change religions, say, to islam, then I become a muslim and have no more legitimate claim to being referred to as a Christian. Likewise, if a muslin converts to Christianity, they have no more legitimate claim to being muslim.

    There are over 52,000 members of this forum, Karniij. I am confident that better than 99% of those members would have no dispute with what I just said. If we're all "nitwits" because of that, well, don't let the door hit ya on the way out. However, if you want to give us a citation to contradict the dictionary-definition of the word "muslim" that I already gave you, most of us don't resist learning something new at all. We just don't let people change our minds about something we know to be true based on nothing more than a long rant that cites no sources, provides no links, and only reinforces what we knew to be a mistake when you first posted it.

    Otherwise, God Bless.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarnij View Post
    For the record I am in agreement with the distain. But I would like to point out that the fight is with Islam not Muslim. Remember there are Christian Muslims being persecuted by the islamic heathens. Islam is evil and deserves nothing more than loathing and removal. A self confessed man or woman of islam is by definition a terrorist.

    Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4

    A Muslim is a believer in or follower of Islam
    That is according to the dictionaries I just looked at. There are no Christian Muslims. You are confusing Arab with Muslim I suspect.
    Maybejim

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarnij View Post
    Would you not agree that one can be of Islam but not Muslim? Therefore, in the same vein it should not be beyond your comprehension that a Muslim can chose to not be of islam as so many of these Christians have converted to Christianity from Islam does that instantly mean that they are suddenly not Muslim?

    First question, the answer is "No, I don't agree that one can be of Islam but not Muslim. A Muslim is one who is a follower of Islam."
    Second question, the answer is "Yes, it is beyond my comprehension since a Muslim is a follower of Islam. Therefore, if one was a follower of Islam and is no longer, then they are no longer a Muslim. If they converted to Christianity from Islam, they would now be called a Christian and no longer be called a Muslim, yet if born in an Arab country, they would still be Arab."

    The word Muslim comes from the Arabic 'aslama' which means 'one who surrenders'. The word Islam comes from the Arabic 'aslama' as well. Their origins are intertwined because their meanings are intertwined.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    First question, the answer is "No, I don't agree that one can be of Islam but not Muslim. A Muslim is one who is a follower of Islam."
    Second question, the answer is "Yes, it is beyond my comprehension since a Muslim is a follower of Islam. Therefore, if one was a follower of Islam and is no longer, then they are no longer a Muslim. If they converted to Christianity from Islam, they would now be called a Christian and no longer be called a Muslim, yet if born in an Arab country, they would still be Arab."

    The word Muslim comes from the Arabic 'aslama' which means 'one who surrenders'. The word Islam comes from the Arabic 'aslama' as well. Their origins are intertwined because their meanings are intertwined.
    From one nitwit to another, nice post!
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    From one nitwit to another, nice post!
    Thanks, back at ya.

    Now, to go one step further: 'aslama' meaning 'one who surrenders', could synonymously mean one who is enslaved. Being that they do not have a path to the Father, Jesus Christ, then they would still be enslaved to sin and their name is completely appropriate.

    I know that their take on the word is one who surrenders all to Allah, but I like my take on it better.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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