U.S. Troops In Homeland “Crowd Control” Patrols From October 1st - Page 2
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Thread: U.S. Troops In Homeland “Crowd Control” Patrols From October 1st

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I could see that happening if Obama lost. However, I don't think this is anything that local or state police can't handle. We've been able to get along without the military almost every other time (except perhaps during the civil rights movement), so I think we can do without military intervention this time, also.
    Normally police are called in from neighboring areas and state police are often utilized to help in major, drawn-out disturbances. But what if the disturbance affects the entire nation? You can't call in police from Tampa to help Orlando if Tampa has similar problems. You can't have FL state police cover the entire area because Miami has similar problems and in Jacksonville, the entire northside is literally on fire.

    Many of the "problem elements" may be on drugs and/or have fully automatic weapons or small explosives. They probably won't use them, but it still leaves the LEOs outgunned. There has to be a comprehensive, blanket solution that uses LEOs and local NGs as the main force, but provides for the use of military as a SHTF backup. This has never happened before, but unless someone has a better solution for when it does, we don't want to get caught with our pants down.

    More than likely, things will go fine in any case and all that will be needed is some overtime pay for local law enforcement and some NG guys to stand around and watch the action. But, no one has a crystal ball. All it takes is that 1/1000 chance and we all look like chumps.

    Hopefully we can make it to New Years Day 2009 without anything terrible happening, breathe a huge sigh of relief, and inaugurate John McCain as our next President.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by toreskha View Post
    Normally police are called in from neighboring areas and state police are often utilized to help in major, drawn-out disturbances. But what if the disturbance affects the entire nation? You can't call in police from Tampa to help Orlando if Tampa has similar problems. You can't have FL state police cover the entire area because Miami has similar problems and in Jacksonville, the entire northside is literally on fire.

    Many of the "problem elements" may be on drugs and/or have fully automatic weapons or small explosives. They probably won't use them, but it still leaves the LEOs outgunned. There has to be a comprehensive, blanket solution that uses LEOs and local NGs as the main force, but provides for the use of military as a SHTF backup. This has never happened before, but unless someone has a better solution for when it does, we don't want to get caught with our pants down.

    More than likely, things will go fine in any case and all that will be needed is some overtime pay for local law enforcement and some NG guys to stand around and watch the action. But, no one has a crystal ball. All it takes is that 1/1000 chance and we all look like chumps.

    Hopefully we can make it to New Years Day 2009 without anything terrible happening, breathe a huge sigh of relief, and inaugurate John McCain as our next President.
    I honestly don't see any of this happening. Sure, there is the possibility of some isolated incidents in a few far-flung areas, but I don't forsee this happening nationwide. I suppose it might benefit us to have some soldiers on standby, but I don't think it'll be necessary.

  4. #13
    OK stop me is i am Wrong BUT IS THIS NOT WHY WE HAVE THE ARMY GUARD?? I think yes it is. Here is more on it that i found some of it may be the same..

    Thursday, September 25 2008 @ 07:46 PM CDT
    Contributed by: crudo
    Views: 938
    Police StateFor the first time ever, the US military is deploying an active duty regular Army combat unit for full-time use inside the United States to deal with emergencies, including potential civil unrest.

    Beginning on October 1, the First Brigade Combat Team of the Third Division will be placed under the command of US Army North, the Army’s component of the Pentagon’s Northern Command (NorthCom), which was created in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks with the stated mission of defending the US “homeland” and aiding federal, state and local authorities.

    Army deploys combat unit in US for possible civil unrest

    By Bill Van Auken
    25 September 2008
    WSWS

    For the first time ever, the US military is deploying an active duty regular Army combat unit for full-time use inside the United States to deal with emergencies, including potential civil unrest.

    Beginning on October 1, the First Brigade Combat Team of the Third Division will be placed under the command of US Army North, the Army’s component of the Pentagon’s Northern Command (NorthCom), which was created in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks with the stated mission of defending the US “homeland” and aiding federal, state and local authorities.

    The unit—known as the “Raiders”—is among the Army’s most “blooded.” It has spent nearly three out of the last five years deployed in Iraq, leading the assault on Baghdad in 2003 and carrying out house-to-house combat in the suppression of resistance in the city of Ramadi. It was the first brigade combat team to be sent to Iraq three times.

    While active-duty units previously have been used in temporary assignments, such as the combat-equipped troops deployed in New Orleans, which was effectively placed under martial law in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, this marks the first time that an Army combat unit has been given a dedicated assignment in which US soil constitutes its “battle zone.”

    The Pentagon’s official pronouncements have stressed the role of specialized units in a potential response to terrorist attack within the US. Gen. George Casey, the Army chief of staff, attended a training exercise last week for about 250 members of the unit at Fort Stewart, Georgia. The focus of the exercise, according to the Army’s public affairs office, was how troops “might fly search and rescue missions, extract casualties and decontaminate people following a catastrophic nuclear attack in the nation’s heartland.”

    “We are at war with a global extremist network that is not going away,” Casey told the soldiers. “I hope we don’t have to use it, but we need the capability.”

    However, the mission assigned to the nearly 4,000 troops of the First Brigade Combat Team does not consist merely of rescuing victims of terrorist attacks. An article that appeared earlier this month in the Army Times (“Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1”), a publication that is widely read within the military, paints a different and far more ominous picture.

    “They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control,” the paper reports. It quotes the unit’s commander, Col. Robert Cloutier, as saying that the 1st BCT’s soldiers are being trained in the use of “the first ever nonlethal package the Army has fielded.” The weapons, the paper reported, are “designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.” The equipment includes beanbag bullets, shields and batons and equipment for erecting roadblocks.

    It appears that as part of the training for deployment within the US, the soldiers have been ordered to test some of this non-lethal equipment on each other.

    “I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” Cloutier told the Army Times. He described the effects of the electroshock weapon as “your worst muscle cramp ever—times 10 throughout your whole body.”

    The colonel’s remark suggests that, in preparation for their “homefront” duties, rank-and-file troops are also being routinely Tasered. The brutalizing effect and intent of such a macabre training exercise is to inure troops against sympathy for the pain and suffering they may be called upon to inflict on the civilian population using these same “non-lethal” weapons.

    According to military officials quoted by the Army Times, the deployment of regular Army troops in the US begun with the First Brigade Combat Team is to become permanent, with different units rotated into the assignment on an annual basis.

    In an online interview with reporters earlier this month, NorthCom officers were asked about the implications of the new deployment for the Posse Comitatus Act, the 230-year-old legal statute that bars the use of US military forces for law enforcement purposes within the US itself.

    Col. Lou Volger, NorthCom’s chief of future operations, tried to downplay any enforcement role, but added, “We will integrate with law enforcement to understand the situation and make sure we’re aware of any threats.”

    Volger acknowledged the obvious, that the Brigade Combat Team is a military force, while attempting to dismiss the likelihood that it would play any military role. It “has forces for security,” he said, “but that’s really—they call them security forces, but that’s really just to establish our own footprint and make sure that we can operate and run our own bases.”

    Lt. Col. James Shores, another NorthCom officer, chimed in, “Let’s say even if there was a scenario that developed into a branch of a civil disturbance—even at that point it would take a presidential directive to even get it close to anything that you’re suggesting.”

    Whatever is required to trigger such an intervention, clearly Col. Cloutier and his troops are preparing for it with their hands-on training in the use of “non-lethal” means of repression.

    The extreme sensitivity of the military brass on this issue notwithstanding, the reality is that the intervention of the military in domestic affairs has grown sharply over the last period under conditions in which its involvement in two colonial-style wars abroad has given it a far more prominent role in American political life.

    The Bush administration has worked to tear down any barriers to the use of the military in domestic repression. Thus, in the 2007 Pentagon spending bill it inserted a measure to amend the Posse Comitatus Act to clear the way for the domestic deployment of the military in the event of natural disaster, terrorist attack or “other conditions in which the president determines that domestic violence has occurred to the extent that state officials cannot maintain public order.”

    The provision granted the president sweeping new powers to impose martial law by declaring a “public emergency” for virtually any reason, allowing him to deploy troops anywhere in the US and to take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of state governors in order to “suppress public disorder.”

    The provision was subsequently repealed by Congress as part of the 2008 military appropriations legislation, but the intent remains. Given the sweeping powers claimed by the White House in the name of the “commander in chief” in a global war on terror—powers to suspend habeas corpus, carry out wholesale domestic spying and conduct torture—there is no reason to believe it would respect legal restrictions against the use of military force at home.

    It is noteworthy that the deployment of US combat troops “as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters”—in the words of the Army Times—coincides with the eruption of the greatest economic emergency and financial disaster since the Great Depression of the 1930s.

    Justified as a response to terrorist threats, the real source of the growing preparations for the use of US military force within America’s borders lies not in the events of September 11, 2001 or the danger that they will be repeated. Rather, the domestic mobilization of the armed forces is a response by the US ruling establishment to the growing threat to political stability.

    Under conditions of deepening economic crisis, the unprecedented social chasm separating the country’s working people from the obscenely wealthy financial elite becomes unsustainable within the existing political framework.
    Last edited by S&WM&P40; 09-29-2008 at 02:21 AM.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  5. #14
    Any one remember that whole Oliver North thing? It sounds like this was the plan they had in mind back then but could not put into play. One thing i have to know is if this is that then when will the Camps start to pop up and the round ups start? This is starting to seem like a SIFI moive that i hoped would stay a movie. Is it just me or is it time to start to think about moving? The thing with North i was talking about was Called REX 84 and it's for the most part what the just did now.

    Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen periodically.[1] Plans for roundups of persons in the United States in times of crisis are constructed during periods of increased political repression such as the Palmer Raids and the McCarthy Era. For example, from 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the "ADEX" list.[2]

    According to scholar Diana Reynolds:

    The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan; otherwise known as a continuity of government plan), indicates that FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and agencies conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise (including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military assistance in civil defense.

    The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial rule. [3]

    Existence of a master military contingency plan, "Garden Plot" and a similar earlier exercise, "Lantern Spike" were originally revealed by journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in "Garden Plot and the New Action Army."[4]

    Rex 84 was mentioned during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported on by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987. [5]A number of websites and alternative publications that span the political spectrum have hypothesized upon the basic material about Rex 84, and in many cases hyperbolized it into a form of urban legend or conspiracy theory. Rex 84 is sometimes cited as an extension of the fictional King Alfred Plan, a strategy to detain African Americans. Nonetheless, the basic facts about Rex 84 and other contingency planning readiness exercises--and the potential threat they pose to civil liberties if fully implemented in a real operation--are taken seriously by scholars and civil liberties activists.[6]

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I honestly don't see any of this happening. Sure, there is the possibility of some isolated incidents in a few far-flung areas, but I don't forsee this happening nationwide. I suppose it might benefit us to have some soldiers on standby, but I don't think it'll be necessary.
    That all depends on where you live. If you're in the ghetto where they don't even deliver pizzas anymore, things might get fairly rough.

    I know several people who live near that particular place; they have heard on numerous occasions residents declaring that "there will be a civil war if Obama loses". They might not be able to actually carry that threat out, but they can certainly try.

    While I don't see millions of people rioting or anything like that, there is definitely the potential for large urban disturbances. It could be worse if further egged on by some equally crazy nuts from the Klan or groups like that.

    Fortunately, there hasn't been much discussion about race during this campaign. Though I disagree with Obama on nearly every issue, I definitely give him credit for not turning this into a "black vs. white" issue. Hopefully the election ends cleanly and we can all sleep peacefully at night. And if we can't, then be prepared for that too.
    Silent Running, by Mike and the Mechanics

  7. #16
    boyzoi Guest

    anywhere else?

    Idianapolis just recently had urban combat training/demonstrations by the Military.
    also, my take on where it would be the worst is deffinately major cities where in the worse case scenrio folks would be lost and the majority (99%) would have no idea how to survive short of taking what ever they want and that would lead to disaster.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by toreskha View Post
    That all depends on where you live. If you're in the ghetto where they don't even deliver pizzas anymore, things might get fairly rough.

    I know several people who live near that particular place; they have heard on numerous occasions residents declaring that "there will be a civil war if Obama loses". They might not be able to actually carry that threat out, but they can certainly try.

    While I don't see millions of people rioting or anything like that, there is definitely the potential for large urban disturbances. It could be worse if further egged on by some equally crazy nuts from the Klan or groups like that.

    Fortunately, there hasn't been much discussion about race during this campaign. Though I disagree with Obama on nearly every issue, I definitely give him credit for not turning this into a "black vs. white" issue. Hopefully the election ends cleanly and we can all sleep peacefully at night. And if we can't, then be prepared for that too.
    It just so happens that I live in the ghetto (the nice part of it, but nevertheless, it's a ghetto). Here, Bush is about as popular as Lucifer. When he was reelected in 2004 people were angry, but nobody rioted, and I don't think it'll happen this time around if Obama loses.

  9. #18
    Lets hope most say no and that is why some day you may see foreign troops under U.N command here.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    For those of you who are serving or have served in the military, could you actually pull the trigger on unarmed American civilians?
    Not an easy order to follow.
    It all depends on the situation. If I'm guarding a post and there are let's say 100+ civilians rushing me at a high rate of speed, I'm alone or with a few other military personnel, and we know that they want to harm us, I will do what I have to do to defend myself. If it means opening up with my MP5 until I'm out of ammo, then that's what it's going to be.


    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Lets hope most say no and that is why some day you may see foreign troops under U.N command here.
    What if however in the future all guns are banned and citizens given a short amount of time to turn them in. After that if the government wanted to send in the military for house to house searches what then?
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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