Those wacky atheists are at it again - Page 4
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Thread: Those wacky atheists are at it again

  1. #31

    No problem

    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    For those of you that have a problem with Christianity just remember by a wide margin most of the founding fathers did not. The same ones that gave you the 2nd Amendment. Never the less Gods love and forgivness were for "who so ever". John3:16 For those that refuse his grace that is their right.
    Hey, I don't have a problem with Christianity.
    In fact, I believe we should all be Christians.
    How about we all become Jehovah Witnesses?
    You all aboard?
    No?
    How about old fashioned Mormonism? A few more wifes, anyone?
    Hmmm...one wife is more than enough for you.
    We could turn to that city of gold and priceless works of art over in Italy for guidance on how to live our poor lives. Calm down Father, and please put those instruments of torture away.
    Ok, ok. You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.
    Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

  2.   
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal View Post
    Hey, I don't have a problem with Christianity.
    In fact, I believe we should all be Christians.
    How about we all become Jehovah Witnesses?
    You all aboard?
    No?
    How about old fashioned Mormonism? A few more wifes, anyone?
    Hmmm...one wife is more than enough for you.
    We could turn to that city of gold and priceless works of art over in Italy for guidance on how to live our poor lives. Calm down Father, and please put those instruments of torture away.
    Ok, ok. You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.
    Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

    Seems like you have a problem mixing religions.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal View Post
    Hey, I don't have a problem with Christianity.
    In fact, I believe we should all be Christians.
    How about we all become Jehovah Witnesses?
    You all aboard?
    No?
    How about old fashioned Mormonism? A few more wifes, anyone?
    Hmmm...one wife is more than enough for you.
    We could turn to that city of gold and priceless works of art over in Italy for guidance on how to live our poor lives. Calm down Father, and please put those instruments of torture away.
    Ok, ok. You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.
    Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.
    The reason I consider myself not a religious man is because I also have a problem with the sheer number of religions in the world today. Each one says they are the way, however, the Bible says there is only one way and that's through Jesus Christ. You don't have to accept organized religion to be a believer. I don't believe life on earth was a simple accident. I believe God (Jehovah, Allah, etc.) guided the development of the planet and life. Sorry for the sermon, I don't normally preach but had to bring out the point of separating organized church from believing.
    Last edited by ronwill; 05-12-2009 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Grammer

  5. #34

    Mixing?

    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Seems like you have a problem mixing religions.
    Yes, you are right - I do have a problem, but it is not "mixing religions".
    My problem is that:

    there are reported to be over 38,000 Christian denominations http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Christian_Denominations

    The ones I named in my post were but 3 of them; they are not separate religions.
    Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, to name but a few, are separate and distinct religions.

    Which brings me back to my original question: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."

    I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal View Post
    Yes, you are right - I do have a problem, but it is not "mixing religions".
    My problem is that:

    there are reported to be over 38,000 Christian denominations http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Christian_Denominations

    The ones I named in my post were but 3 of them; they are not separate religions.
    Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, to name but a few, are separate and distinct religions.

    Which brings me back to my original question: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."

    I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.
    O.K. you tell me which should not be running the show as you put it? Should only athiests and agnostics "run the show"? Should the minority dictate to the majority. Who's set of standards should we follow? Yours?
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. #36

    School yard

    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    O.K. you tell me which should not be running the show as you put it? Should only athiests and agnostics "run the show"? Should the minority dictate to the majority. Who's set of standards should we follow? Yours?
    What is this?
    This is starting to sound like two kids in a school yard.

    First HK4U, a little background introduction would be in order.
    As to God: I consider myself an Agnostic; I do not deny or affirm the existence of God - I just don't know.
    (I did have what might be called a "Spiritual" experience once; but, that is a tale for another time.)
    As to religion: I hope you do not assume that I have not been seeking God; I have - all my life (64).
    I've been to Jewish Synagogues, Taoist Temples, Buddhist Temples, and spent a good deal of time in Christian Churches. My home is open to religious friends and neighbors of all faiths - even Jehovah Witnesses, when they come knocking - to hopefully shed some light on my ignorance.
    But God (or Nature) has given me a mind that questions everything. When I went to Temple or Church I did not check my critical thinking at the door. When I talk to the people who express a desire in helping me find Jesus, I first caution them that I will be asking tough questions.
    So far, when the tough questions start coming, they get going; with the exception of one Jehovah Witness who has not given up on me – yet.
    The reason I ask these tough questions is because before I commit my soul to any God or religion, I would be foolish not to try my best to be as certain as humanly possible that it is the True One; otherwise I've wasted a whole lot of time, money, and in fact, will not be going to Heaven.
    A problem I have is similar to ronwill, where he posted, “...I also have a problem with the sheer number of religions in the world today. Each one says they are the way...”.
    It seems a Tower of Babel has be erected and called Religion.
    As far as the question of a place where religion and politics meet; I'll go with the answer Jesus gave, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”
    There are millions of Americans who believe – you seem to be one of them – that the two should be mixed, with a greater proportion going to religion; specifically Christianity.
    This started with you saying, "For those of you that have a problem with Christianity".
    To which I replied, "...I don't have a problem with Christianity.".
    To be fair, and more specific, I do not have a overall problem with Christianity; however, I do have many questions, with some of the answers posing problems for me.
    Getting back to my school yard metaphor at the beginning of this post; I threw the ball to you, “You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.”
    Now, you have thrown the ball back to me without taking your shot and answering my question.
    But, I will shoot the ball and answer your questions:

    HK4U: 'Should only atheists and agnostics "run the show"?'
    Loyal: Absolutely, unequivocally, NO.

    HK4U: “Should the minority dictate to the majority”
    Loyal: NO

    HK4U: Who's set of standards should we follow? Yours?
    Loyal: Mine? I don't know my ******* from my elbow; **** from shineola. But, I am smart enough to know that I am not smart enough. One more...don't follow me – I'm lost. (Sorry, gotta lighten this up a little.)
    Seriously, we should follow the same standards that have been working just fine since 1776; they
    have served the majority of Americans very well all these years.

    HK4U: O.K. you tell me which should not be running the show as you put it?
    Loyal: I will; none of them should be running the show. Wherever, and whenever I look throughout history – up too and including the present - and find one religion, or one ideology running the show, I find a horror show.
    We don't have Ayatollahs, or Hitlers, or Stalins running our show.

    Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 – 1983)

    So my question to you was not frivolous by any means, especially in light of RNC Chairman Michael Steele's comments just this morning, “It was the base that rejected Mitt because it had issues with Mormonism.”

    So, now I throw the ball back to you: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."

    I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.

    Oh, one more thing: I support and will defend your right to vote for the party of your choice and worship as you choose...except, kissing a rug, I can't deal with that one. I guess everyone is entitled to at least one irrational, emotional response.

  8. #37
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    "That is exactly why the 10 commandments where removed and God taken out of the pledge of allegiance, to stop forcing those beliefs on others."

    Interesting, I do believe that the start of this country is based on Judeo-Christian priciples and we grew as a country and didn't do too badly on that basis. As far as I know God is still in the Pledge.

    If not on the basis of the law of God what was this country founded? If not on God given rights what are our basic civil rights based? They cannot be the gift of government as then government would be able to take them away and rightly so. I refuse that dangerous base.

  9. #38
    Loyal I agree there are a lot of religions out there. Everyone has to decide for themselves which one is "the one". I too have a problem with the whole religion thing. I don't even like the words religion or religious. Personally I feel religion is man trying to work out his salvation. Trying to work his way to God but Christianity is a loving God that reached out to man by sending his Son to pay the price that man could never pay. As festus said on this thread or another one I do not understand why God loved me enough to send his Son to suffer and die in my place but I am sure glad he did becuase if my salvation depended on me being good enough anything that I would do would fall short.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  10. #39

    Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Loyal I agree there are a lot of religions out there. Everyone has to decide for themselves which one is "the one". I too have a problem with the whole religion thing. I don't even like the words religion or religious. Personally I feel religion is man trying to work out his salvation. Trying to work his way to God but Christianity is a loving God that reached out to man by sending his Son to pay the price that man could never pay. As festus said on this thread or another one I do not understand why God loved me enough to send his Son to suffer and die in my place but I am sure glad he did becuase if my salvation depended on me being good enough anything that I would do would fall short.
    Thank you for a reply I would expect to get from a real Christian; you gave me a well thought out response with honesty and sincerity - without resorting to nasty ad hominem attacks.
    I have a friend by the name of Ernie; he is in construction. For his vacations he goes to poor places, and along with a couple of fellow Christians, builds simple homes and spreads the Word by deeds.
    I have never heard Ernie utter a bad word about anyone, never lift his voice in anger, and I have personally seen him turn away from great temptation.
    I have had many long conversations with him about faith, Jesus and Christianity.
    He has told me that he uses his strong faith in Jesus as a powerful bulwark to work on his human faults, and give him strength to reject temptation.
    Sadly, he is only one of a small handful of people that I have known in my life that were truly worthy of being called Christian.
    I know there are others like him out there... I have a feeling you may be one of them.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal View Post
    Thank you for a reply I would expect to get from a real Christian; you gave me a well thought out response with honesty and sincerity - without resorting to nasty ad hominem attacks.
    I have a friend by the name of Ernie; he is in construction. For his vacations he goes to poor places, and along with a couple of fellow Christians, builds simple homes and spreads the Word by deeds.
    I have never heard Ernie utter a bad word about anyone, never lift his voice in anger, and I have personally seen him turn away from great temptation.
    I have had many long conversations with him about faith, Jesus and Christianity.
    He has told me that he uses his strong faith in Jesus as a powerful bulwark to work on his human faults, and give him strength to reject temptation.
    Sadly, he is only one of a small handful of people that I have known in my life that were truly worthy of being called Christian.
    I know there are others like him out there... I have a feeling you may be one of them.

    Thank you Loyal. I wish all Christians including myself would let the love of Christ shine through them more often. I try to live my live in a way that would give glory to Christ and point others to him but if I am honest I will have to admit there are times when I fail. Thank the Lord I received grace and not what I deserved.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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