Gotta Love Those Texas Women. - Page 2
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Thread: Gotta Love Those Texas Women.

  1. #11
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    when someone is attacking my family or myself, no way is the BG's life more precious than that of ours.

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  3. #12
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    But that's exactly my point. At the time this man was shot, he was attacking no one. He was running away with his back turned. The story says nothing about him threatening to come back and kill her or her family if she turned him in or retaliated or even brandishing a weapon. Can the argument be made that she prevented him from victimizing someone else in the future? Yes, but this isn't Minority Report and we don't punish people based on the crimes they might commit. We punish them based on what they have done, unless they are denied due process by being shot to death. Didn he deserve to be punished for his crime, yes. Did he deserve to die for it is clearly a question that is up in the air, much to my dismay.

  4. #13
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    When in the heat of the moment, one's fears are allowed to reign freely. You are not required to have precrime knowledge that this person either will or will not do you injury in the future, near or far future. You're entirely free to have the panicked impulse that he's immediately about to come back and pull a knife or a gun, or an atomic weapon on you and kill you. There must be a serious period of time separating the violent crime against you and your employment of lethal force. The crime victim would also have to leave a safe area in order to pursue the criminal for the administration of the coup de grace. In my book, both of these conditions would have to be met for a case of unjustified homicide to be sustainable against the crime victim of the nature of the OP's story.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgnavarro View Post
    But that's exactly my point. At the time this man was shot, he was attacking no one. He was running away with his back turned. The story says nothing about him threatening to come back and kill her or her family if she turned him in or retaliated or even brandishing a weapon. Can the argument be made that she prevented him from victimizing someone else in the future? Yes, but this isn't Minority Report and we don't punish people based on the crimes they might commit. We punish them based on what they have done, unless they are denied due process by being shot to death. Didn he deserve to be punished for his crime, yes. Did he deserve to die for it is clearly a question that is up in the air, much to my dismay.
    he had her pocket book and probably the car keys house keys and her id everything he would need to come back and visit her at her house and possibly kill her entire family, i stand by what i posted earlier, one less criminal off the street left to wander about and victimize other defenseless people. crime doesn't pay. eventually they will figure it out one bullet at a time.

  6. #15
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    And this is where we must agree to disagree, as having the opportunity to do harm is not the same as doing it. No one should die for what they might do.

  7. #16
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    your right but he was killed in the process of committing a crime, its not like she asked him to hold her purse for a minute, the bastidge was victimizing her. i guess if the same happened to you, you would prolly give him a tip for robbing you, saying here you go guy, take everything you want i'll look away while you do your little thing. lol.

  8. #17
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    Yes, he was in a commission of a crime that is not punishable by death in any state in this country. No, I don't think I would tip him. I would report the incident to the police, and hopefully not shoot someone in the back who was not immediately threatening my life. If I had, I should punished.

  9. #18
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    Red face I understand you, cgnavarro.

    While I would agree that predatory criminals deserve little sympathy, as we all on this forum know, the specific circumstances of when deadly force is authorized is very clear: Only when your life (or serious injury) or the life of another is in immediate jeopardy, or to stop a forcible felony.

    This particular case is definitely NOT an example.

    Be careful, lest your teenage son or daughter be shot while attempting to steal a beer at the local Kwik-E-Mart.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgnavarro View Post
    Yes, he was in a commission of a crime that is not punishable by death in any state in this country. No, I don't think I would tip him. I would report the incident to the police, and hopefully not shoot someone in the back who was not immediately threatening my life. If I had, I should punished.
    you're missing the point, BG's who are killed in the commencement of a crime deserve absolutely zero sympathy, i work an 8-5 job 5 days a week and support my family, this dirtbag would still be alive if he had chose a different lifestyle, i.e. working a regular job just like anybody else, but instead he was lazy and chose a life of crime, so he is responsible for making the decision that ultimately cost him his life. think of it as a job hazard. what makes him so special that he deserved to be rewarded with everything in this poor lady's purse?

  11. #20
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    The problem with your logic, cgnavarro, is that you would have to wait until the enemy's bullet has left the gun before you could predict that he would shoot at you. You would have to wait until the enemy's knife has pierced your skin before you could predict that he would stab you. In fact, since we all know that many gun shot, stabbing, and bludgeoning wounds are not fatal, you'd have to wait until the nerves are obliterated or the arteries are severed to know with metaphysical certainty that he means to do you LETHAL injury before you would be justified in returning LETHAL force upon him.

    You are justified, in most sane jurisdictions that I know of, in visitting deadly force upon a person if you can invoke the reasonable person standard. In otherwords, you can show that your thought processes AT THAT MOMENT were such that a metaphorical reasonable person would agree with the decision to hit, stab, shoot, etc. the person.

    If you have to wait for that iron clad guarantee that you're about to be attacked, you're already dead, and that iron cladding is going on your casket. I could and would claim that I believed that at any moment, that purse snatcher was going to wheel around, aim a gun at me, and since the criminal at that moment was still in my presence, it's reasonable, and so I am justified in ending that threat with a .357MAG between the shoulderblades. If the criminals falls down and stays down before I can realign for a second shot, cool, I get to conserv ammo in case he has an accomplice. If he's still up, well, then, the threat hasn't ended, has it?

    That is, if I'm operating on enough of my rational mind, or the training has taken over. But, if I'm operating instinctually out of fear, I might just be pulling the trigger until I hear click instead of boom, and that too would be reasonable.

    In the end, the incident was one of the criminal's making, not the self-defense shooter. If he didn't want to get shot in the back, there was an easy way for him to accomplish that... don't be a criminal that day.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

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