Winchester 9mm 127 +p+
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Thread: Winchester 9mm 127 +p+

  1. #1

    Winchester 9mm 127 +p+

    Just was winding if anyone had any news if this load if legal for civilian use, our is it just for LE. I know there is no federal regulations prohibiting this just was wondering if there was any state our local laws against it. Thanks for the insight

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  3. #2
    There should be no issue with the round, just double check and make sure your firearm can handle the HOT load!

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  4. #3
    I have a Glock 26 Gen 4.......

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by gkeil961 View Post
    I have a Glock 26 Gen 4.......
    Email Glock and ask if you can use +P+, in my M&P I can use +P but not +P+.
    Sic vis pacem, para bellum

  6. #5
    To the best of my knowledge, there is NO industry standard as to what pressure "+P+" is loaded to.

    If you really need all that extra power, you need to upgrade to a 40 or 45!

    -Doc

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bighouse Doc View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, there is NO industry standard as to what pressure "+P+" is loaded to.
    You would be correct in your knowledge.

  8. #7
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    With that said, what would be the absolute "maximum" powder charge a 9mm cartridge can be loaded to given all available current technology?
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock Fan View Post
    With that said, what would be the absolute "maximum" powder charge a 9mm cartridge can be loaded to given all available current technology?
    What powder? what bullet? what primer?

    One is always foolish to violate published maximums when reloading.

    -Doc

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bighouse Doc View Post
    What powder? what bullet? what primer?

    One is always foolish to violate published maximums when reloading.

    -Doc
    I'll re-state my question. What would be the maximum recommended load for a 9mm +P+ cartridge? I'm not looking to "max out" or violate any published maximum, I'm basically looking for the "worse case scenario" that you could get with a factory load, so as to have some idea of if it would be safe (or not) to shoot in a particular firearm.
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gkeil961 View Post
    Just was winding if anyone had any news if this load if legal for civilian use, our is it just for LE. I know there is no federal regulations prohibiting this just was wondering if there was any state our local laws against it. Thanks for the insight
    gkeil, here's what you have to understand about the +P+ designation. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) sets the safe pressures and designations for the manufacturers to follow. The Winchester 9mm 127 gr +P (NO extra "+" on the end) is guaranteed not to violate 42,000 lbs of force when touched off. However, SAAMI does NOT set any guidelines for a +P+ designation! The extra + is just there to tell you that the ammunition does NOT comply to SAAMI guidelines and was manufactured to whatever the company felt like they could get away with - the manufacturer might have increased pressures by 10% or 30%, there is no way to know without checking with the company. Great guns like Walther, Colt, Glock and others and those with steel frames and slides or those that have been upgraded with things like Match barrels can accept much higher pressures with no problem, but cheaper guns made with inferior materials are sometimes sold with manuals that say to not even use +P ammo! That means that +P+ would be suicidal in such a weapon. The issue has been confused by stretching the use of a SAAMI designation to a non-SAAMI use, but once you understand how important that extra "+" is, you can make an informed decision.

    Now, to answer your original question! There is no federal restriction to the round being Law Enforcement Only (LEO). You would have to check with your State Attorney General (AG) and your County Sheriff to find out if there was a more local restriction, but I'm certain that a local gun store could clarify this if you simply ask if they stock the round for civilian purchase. Most ammo manufacturers have given up on LEO-only lines because they find LEOs don't necessarily buy LEO ammunition after testing, believe it or not. As an example, A large mid-western Sheriff's Department chose the newer Winchester RA9124TP 9mm 124 gr. +P ammunition as their duty ammo because it had the same ballistic results as the 127 gr. +P+ but lower recoil which meant quicker follow-up shots.

    Hope this helped!
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

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