Involuntary Commitment to a mental institution when 16- conceal carry?
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Thread: Involuntary Commitment to a mental institution when 16- conceal carry?

  1. Angry Involuntary Commitment to a mental institution when 16- conceal carry?

    I called the OSBI and they told me that there was a lifelong preculision to getting my conceal to carry if I had an involuntary commitment to a mental institution. I was 16 at the time for petes sake, and suffering from depression. I was found to have NO other mental illness or other issues.

    I don't understand why something that happened when I was a minor can prevent me from obtaining my CCL?

    I thought things that happened when you were a minor were sealed?

    Has any one any thoughts?

    Thank you
    Angie

  2.   
  3. #2
    Those records should be sealed. I have buddies that I was in iraq with that claim ptsd and receive a service connection for that, and they all have permits

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider-3 View Post
    Those records should be sealed. I have buddies that I was in iraq with that claim ptsd and receive a service connection for that, and they all have permits
    The VA is cracking down on them also. It's gonna come up and they will most likely lose them.

    I would say to the OP, if it means that much to you, get a lawyer and see what can be done. Don't try to do it yourself because anything you may say in haste may seal your fate forever.

    KK

  5. That's tricky. Someone with a criminal conviction can petition for expungement, but I don't know if that's possible for a mental health issue.

  6. #5

    The less said the better...?

    But perhaps this is a case of "the less said the better?"

    I would consult a knowledgeable attorney about whether or not you would be legally obligated to reveal the involuntary committment, since you were a minor when it happened.
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Gain View Post
    But perhaps this is a case of "the less said the better?"

    I would consult a knowledgeable attorney about whether or not you would be legally obligated to reveal the involuntary committment, since you were a minor when it happened.
    I asked the OSBI and they said part of the background check was asking the Dept of Mental Health if I had ever been involuntarily committed, and they answer 'yes' or 'no'. They are not given details of age, or reason. It doesn't matter what I say if I have or haven't, they still ask the DOMH on every application. The only thing they werent 100% certain on was whether the fact I was a minor had anything to do with it, if it would report back.

    This is upsetting because I was a minor and that should be sealed.

    Thanks
    Angie

    ps can't afford an attourney!

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    McAlester, Oklahoma
    Posts
    408
    Quote Originally Posted by angiepangie View Post
    I called the OSBI and they told me that there was a lifelong preculision to getting my conceal to carry if I had an involuntary commitment to a mental institution. I was 16 at the time for petes sake, and suffering from depression. I was found to have NO other mental illness or other issues.

    I don't understand why something that happened when I was a minor can prevent me from obtaining my CCL?

    I thought things that happened when you were a minor were sealed?

    Has any one any thoughts?

    Thank you
    Angie
    This is the section of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act that applies to your question:



    3. Any involuntary commitment for a mental illness, condition, or disorder pursuant to the provisions of Section 5-410 of Title 43A of the Oklahoma Statutes or any involuntary commitment in another state pursuant to any provisions of law of that state. The preclusive period shall be permanent as provided by Title 18 of the United States Code Section 922 (g) (4);

    4. The person has previously undergone treatment for a mental illness, condition, or disorder which required medication or supervision as defined by paragraph 7 of Section 1290.10 of this title. The preclusive period shall be three (3) years from the last date of treatment or upon presentation of a certified statement from a licensed physician stating that the person is either no longer disabled by any mental or psychiatric illness, condition, or disorder or that the person has been stabilized on medication for ten (10) years or more;



    It appears that it is not a lifelong preclusion, but some time must pass. You can look at the law and see how it applies to you.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok:240246
    Quote Originally Posted by angiepangie View Post
    I called the OSBI and they told me that there was a lifelong preculision to getting my conceal to carry if I had an involuntary commitment to a mental institution. I was 16 at the time for petes sake, and suffering from depression. I was found to have NO other mental illness or other issues.

    I don't understand why something that happened when I was a minor can prevent me from obtaining my CCL?

    I thought things that happened when you were a minor were sealed?

    Has any one any thoughts?

    Thank you
    Angie
    This is the section of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act that applies to your question:



    3. Any involuntary commitment for a mental illness, condition, or disorder pursuant to the provisions of Section 5-410 of Title 43A of the Oklahoma Statutes or any involuntary commitment in another state pursuant to any provisions of law of that state. The preclusive period shall be permanent as provided by Title 18 of the United States Code Section 922 (g) (4);

    4. The person has previously undergone treatment for a mental illness, condition, or disorder which required medication or supervision as defined by paragraph 7 of Section 1290.10 of this title. The preclusive period shall be three (3) years from the last date of treatment or upon presentation of a certified statement from a licensed physician stating that the person is either no longer disabled by any mental or psychiatric illness, condition, or disorder or that the person has been stabilized on medication for ten (10) years or more;



    It appears that it is not a lifelong preclusion, but some time must pass. You can look at the law and see how it applies to you.
    Well there ya go, plain as day.

  10. #9

    Exclamation How this layman reads the statutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
    This is the section of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act that applies to your question:

    3. Any involuntary commitment for a mental illness, condition, or disorder pursuant to the provisions of Section 5-410 of Title 43A of the Oklahoma Statutes or any involuntary commitment in another state pursuant to any provisions of law of that state. The preclusive period shall be permanent as provided by Title 18 of the United States Code Section 922 (g) (4);

    4. The person has previously undergone treatment for a mental illness, condition, or disorder which required medication or supervision as defined by paragraph 7 of Section 1290.10 of this title. The preclusive period shall be three (3) years from the last date of treatment or upon presentation of a certified statement from a licensed physician stating that the person is either no longer disabled by any mental or psychiatric illness, condition, or disorder or that the person has been stabilized on medication for ten (10) years or more;

    It appears that it is not a lifelong preclusion, but some time must pass. You can look at the law and see how it applies to you.
    I do not believe that Rabbitcreek is interpreting the law correctly. Sections 3 and 4 are talking about two different things. Section 3 speaks about involuntary committment to a mental institution. Section 4 talks about treatment for a mental illness, which would be more along the lines of voluntary counseling, therapy, and so on.

    According to 18 USC 922 (g)(4) which is referenced in the Oklahoma law:

    ------

    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person -
    .
    .
    .
    (4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
    .
    .
    .
    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce,
    any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or
    transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

    ------

    It would seem to ME, a layman, that there is no time limit applied, that according to Federal law it does not matter when the involuntary committment occurred, and that it permanently excludes you from owning ANY firearm or ammunition, much less acquiring a CCW.

    There could be case law where you could argue an exception. It also could be possible that it was not truly an "involuntary committment" if your parents voluntarily put you in for treatment. (Involuntary to YOU but not to THEM.) There may possibly be legal ways around this that are not clear from just reading the statutes. THIS IS WHY YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY. If you can't afford one right now, SAVE UP until you can, and go from there.

    Good luck!
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/members/phillip-gain-albums-phil-s-photos-picture3828-reciprocity-map-29jun11.JPG

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sandpoint, Idaho
    Posts
    1,315
    What he said. Involuntary usually means court-ordered, not because your parents made you.

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