What benefits to open carry? - Page 3
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Thread: What benefits to open carry?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by maybejim View Post
    Since OC is illegal most places, that might have a lot to do with your observation (which of course is nothing but anecdotal)
    So far as I can tell, 27 states allow you to carry without a permit. Several other states allow you to openly carry with a permit, so that is the majority of states. It seems that OC is not illegal in most places.

    That being said, your other points about the percentage of people carrying, openly or not seems to have a deterrent effect upon criminals and crime. Getting shot is not pleasant. Seeing a gun on a well dressed person screams "COP!" to most people.

    I see open carry as a way to promote safety, courtesy, and awareness of our rights. I've heard of the "down-side" to carrying openly, but have yet to hear of any credible fears of OC coming true. The majority of folks encountering OC individuals seems to be positive.

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  3. #22
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    So far as I can tell, 27 states allow you to carry without a permit. Several other states allow you to openly carry with a permit, so that is the majority of states. It seems that OC is not illegal in most places.

    I don't know the law in all those states but I suspect that it is conditional. You can open carry in Kalifornia, just if you are in an incorporated area, your gun can not be loaded. I doubt that that serves as a real deterrent to any criminal. Open Carry is legal in Oregon but I've never see it in Ontario, or the little towns around Ontario. The same I believe is true for Idaho but I've never seen it in Boise or in the little towns from Boise to the Oregon border. Anecdotal but I expect I have seen more people there than anyone here has seen criminals committing a crime with a gun. On the other hand I have seen Open Carry in several little towns in Arizona (but not in Phoenix).

    What was the purpose of your post other than an attempt at another personal attack on what I have to say or an attempt to get a reaction from me? You've done this to me and to others in the past. This leads me to believe that you're more "anti" than "pro" 2a.
    It wasn't a personal attack at all. I wonder why you want to make it so. I don't see a lot of positives for Open Carry. I can't see that it would actually realistically reduce crime or violence. It simply would make it easier to pick a safer victim. I don't think there will ever be a noticeable number of people practicing OC. Not in the reasonable future. I don't oppose Open Carry, I just think that it would be more difficult to get accepted than Concealed Carry and would serve more of a detriment towards moving the country to accepting the 2nd Amendment and opposing anti-gun laws. I hear the arguments that it would serve as a conditioning of people to accepting guns. I think at this time it would not but would serve the exact opposite.

    The anti's have taken a long time to train the country to fear and hate guns. It's going to take awhile to overcome that. Jumping ahead to forcing it down the throats of the average don't really give a thought citizen I think would be a bad thing.

    I don't understand why you can't simply agree that we need to educate members of the public, rather than attack someone on an issue for no apparent reason
    .

    I was going after your statement not you. That you or I have observed something is anecdotal and holds no scientific value. Because open carry is so unusual (regardless of whatever laws exist), a BG carrying openly would attract attention to himself. That wouldn't be his goal when he's setting up for a criminal act. Why would popularizing OC not make it easier for a BG to walk in OC to commit a crime?
    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  4. #23

    If OC were not illegal in my home state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Booga View Post
    Seeing a gun on a well dressed person screams "COP!" to most people.
    Short sleeved white dress shirt, business style neck tie, tie clip, black leather belt, black dress pants, black socks, black leather shoes with a high shine, Fossil watch, Glock 22 in Black Galco FLETCH strong side holster, where does that scream COP? Add a bicycle, helmet, and backpack, I'd be mistaken for a Morman missionary.

    I see open carry as a way to promote safety, courtesy, and awareness of our rights.
    Which is a good thing, IMHO.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    Short sleeved white dress shirt, business style neck tie, tie clip, black leather belt, black dress pants, black socks, black leather shoes with a high shine, Fossil watch, Glock 22 in Black Galco FLETCH strong side holster, where does that scream COP? Add a bicycle, helmet, and backpack, I'd be mistaken for a Morman missionary.



    Which is a good thing, IMHO.

    I've actually seen a couple of Morman Missionaries OCing. This is ironic because the LDS church is the only church in the state of UT that is officially off limits for OC/CC because they make sure they're in compliance with state law that makes their churches "gun free" zones.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybejim View Post
    The advantage is when concealed carry becomes popular (I forget the numbers but I'm thinking at about 5%) confrontational crime drops because criminals don't know who might be armed. So everyone, not just those who are carrying is safer. With open carry, criminals might avoid those they can see carrying but then they likely would turn to those who are not openly carrying. Then too with open carry criminals can carry openly with no one thinking ill about it.

    I guess the only solution is legal open and concealed carry and a push to get as many people as possible to just carry.

    Do you have an alarm system? If so, are you like thousands of other people who place a stop sign shaped sign in the bushes by the front door or a sticker in the window closest to the lock that reads,"ADT", "Pinkerton" or some other brand of alarm? This is how I feel about open carry. It is a stop sign. I think the average criminal is going to say to himself, "Self, this guy just might shoot me right in the face if I try to victimize him, but look over there. There is someone without a gun, so Self, you go rob them instead." This is called crime displacement. It does not deter crime, it only displaces it to the person who did not prepare.

    Wallet, watch, keys & gun. The four things I never leave home without.

    Troy Perry
    The Contingency Group

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NcPermit View Post
    Do you have an alarm system? If so, are you like thousands of other people who place a stop sign shaped sign in the bushes by the front door or a sticker in the window closest to the lock that reads,"ADT", "Pinkerton" or some other brand of alarm? This is how I feel about open carry. It is a stop sign. I think the average criminal is going to say to himself, "Self, this guy just might shoot me right in the face if I try to victimize him, but look over there. There is someone without a gun, so Self, you go rob them instead." This is called crime displacement. It does not deter crime, it only displaces it to the person who did not prepare.

    Wallet, watch, keys & gun. The four things I never leave home without.

    Troy Perry
    The Contingency Group
    I agree with you. But my conclusion as a result is Concealed Carry because then statistics say everyone is safer. "Shall Issue" is passed, an increasing number start carrying concealed, confrontational crime goes down. To my mind, that's a win-win situation. That means my wife who won't carry and my daughter in law and my grandkids are all safer because there are fewer confrontations.
    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  8. #27

    Thumbs up Best of BOTH worlds!!!

    NRA-ILA :: Arizona: Carry Reform Bill Passes out of Committee


    Arizona: Carry Reform Bill Passes out of Committee

    Wednesday, February 10, 2010

    Please Contact Your State Legislators!

    Last week House Bill 2347 passed out of the House Military Affairs and Public Safety Committee by a vote of 5 to 2. HB 2347 would eliminate a long standing double standard between concealed carry and open carry.

    Currently under Arizona law it is generally legal to carry a firearm openly as long as you are 18 years of age and not prohibited from possessing a firearm. However, if the firearm becomes covered, say with a coat, or if you are a woman and prefer to carry your firearm in your purse, you need to possess a concealed carry permit. The permit system is expensive and time consuming, considering all you have done is change your attire. While the recently amended language would allow law-abiding persons to carry their firearm concealed, it would not allow those without permits to carry concealed in places that require a permit, such as restaurants. It is the intention of the NRA to fully support the amended version of HB 2347 and provide greater freedom of choice for Arizona gun owners.

    Please take the time to respectfully urge your state legislators to support the amended
    A citizen who shirks his duty to contribute to the security of his community is little better than the criminal who threatens it.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by NcPermit View Post
    Do you have an alarm system? If so, are you like thousands of other people who place a stop sign shaped sign in the bushes by the front door or a sticker in the window closest to the lock that reads,"ADT", "Pinkerton" or some other brand of alarm? This is how I feel about open carry. It is a stop sign. I think the average criminal is going to say to himself, "Self, this guy just might shoot me right in the face if I try to victimize him, but look over there. There is someone without a gun, so Self, you go rob them instead." This is called crime displacement. It does not deter crime, it only displaces it to the person who did not prepare.

    Wallet, watch, keys & gun. The four things I never leave home without.

    Troy Perry
    The Contingency Group
    I see your point, but I think the real deterrent is the criminal saying: "I'm in a state that is mandated to issue concealed carry permits to law abiding citizens...........I wonder which people are armed and which ones are not?"

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NcPermit View Post
    Do you have an alarm system? If so, are you like thousands of other people who place a stop sign shaped sign in the bushes by the front door or a sticker in the window closest to the lock that reads,"ADT", "Pinkerton" or some other brand of alarm? This is how I feel about open carry. It is a stop sign. I think the average criminal is going to say to himself, "Self, this guy just might shoot me right in the face if I try to victimize him, but look over there. There is someone without a gun, so Self, you go rob them instead." This is called crime displacement. It does not deter crime, it only displaces it to the person who did not prepare.

    Wallet, watch, keys & gun. The four things I never leave home without.

    Troy Perry
    The Contingency Group
    maybejim says that he"guesses that the only solution is legal open and conceal carry and a push to get as many people as possible to just carry". To me, that is the only solution, without question, no guessing. Open carry is definitely a stop sign. Only a complete moron with an IQ of room temperature would not think more than twice about victimizing someone openly carrying a gun. People aren't safer because conceal carry is legal, only the people carrying concealed are safer. Conceal carry is legal where I live, (open carry is legal too) however, the vast majority is totally ignorant of their gun rights. They don't have a clue, and therefore confrontations are not fewer. Also, the majority, of that ignorant majority, would not own a gun, let alone carry even if they could.

    Only those who conceal carry are safer than those who don't. Those who open carry are safer than those who conceal carry. All of those in the presence of the open carrier are safer. The BG's are well aware of the law and the statistics proving the ignorance of the public, to include the majority's fear of guns and attitude toward guns, which brings me back to the STOP SIGN.
    Americas Epitaph
    "Since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done"

  11. #30
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    Only those who conceal carry are safer than those who don't.
    Actually statistics uphold the idea that everyone is safer with concealed carry. Read John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime, or his other book (whose name escapes me at the moment) and you will see those statistics. Crime goes down as Concealed Carry goes up, especially confrontational crime.

    http://www.ohioccw.org/modules.php?n...ticle&sid=2761

    Consider this evidence:

    "Murder rates decline when either more women or more men carry concealed handguns, but the effect is especially pronounced for women. An additional woman carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for women by about three to four times more than an additional man carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for men." More Guns, Less Crime. John R. Lott, Jr.
    Raw data from the Justice Department’s annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a “stranger rape” with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1% and of victim injury 0.1%, compared to 31% and 40% respectively, for all stranger rapes. For all rapes, women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist, and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.” (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000)

    07/27/02 - Important New Book Refutes Gun Control Myths

    The 17 states and the District of Columbia without concealed-carry permits enjoy an 81 percent higher rate of violent crime. Their restrictive gun laws produced 1,400 more murders, 4,200 more rapes, 12,000 more robberies, and 60,000 more aggravated assaults.
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member CRPA
    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

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