Grooming and Manner of Dress for O.C. - Page 4
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Thread: Grooming and Manner of Dress for O.C.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by hopnpop View Post
    If it walks like a gangsta, and looks like a gangsta, and talks like a gangsta.... it very well could be an upstanding citizen with a promising future who's just trying to blend into his 'ghetto' environment. It may be unlikely, but his rights are still his rights and should be respected. The police are a reactive force, and that's because when authority acts preemptively, rights get stomped on.

    Case in point, that fellow who recently lost his job, bought a few guns right after losing it, and those two factors alone were enough to compell authorities to raid his house, take posession of his property, and hold him without charges. He'd done nothing illegal and yet he was detained (even arrested, I believe) without charges.... his home was invaded and searched... his guns, that he'd owned prior AND the one's he'd just bought, were seized.... and he'd done nothing illegal. He'd not even made any threats to anyone. When the police chief or whoever was interviewed, he stated that they (police) were acting "preemptively", or "just in case" he MIGHT have been a danger. In other words, he was profiled according to his actions, however legal they were, and he and his rights were severely violated. This can't become the norm in our society.

    A gangsta look does NOT equal "probable cause". Would something turn up if a "gangsta-looking" person were investigated? More than likely, yes... BUT appearance in itself, in America, isn't grounds for investigation. We, the people, should be judged by our actions, not our outward appearances.
    Why is it when someone is trying to prove their point, they always seem to come up with some far=fetched story, a one-off type of happening, as the normal thing that would happen if a position was taken legally?

    What you can't get rid of in people, or police, is their impressions. It's normal human emotion. And it usually comes from experience. I will admit sometimes it comes from twisted teachings too. But that isn't happening with police. Their actions and emotions come from experience on the street. Personally speaking, there is a BIG difference in the profiling of DWB ( driving while black ) and stopping South American looking folks to see if they have proper papers. With the amount of illegal immigrants we have in this country, if the police don't have "probable cause" NOW, they NEVER will!!

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    Well, first of all, I like the post about getting dressed up to NOT look like a gangbanger when carrying open.

    And I don't look at it as being harassed by the cops if I'm stopped and they ask questions. I look at it like they are trying to "protect and serve" the public at large. Al you have to do is show them a permit, if required in the state to open carry. If a permit is not required, you still have no worry if you aren't wanted. If you are "wanted", I'm glad they stopped you! LOL!
    Yeah, nothing at all to worry about. Never will you be tackled by the state police, put in handcuffs and held for an hour while being screamed at by the trooper about how he doesn't care if you're not breaking the law, he doesn't like it, and you're going to pay for it whether he can charge you or not.

    Or to have a dinner party interrupted by a group of police officers where half the people are cuffed in front of their families and several guns are confiscated.

    Or having your license revoked by a biased sheriff over simple open carry.

    Or a thousand other instances of abuse by police.


    None of that can ever happen so long as you're legal, right?


    Being stopped and questioned by the police for doing something that isn't illegal, just because they don't like or approve of it, is nothing but harassment.

  4. #33
    handgonnetoter Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    I profile. I have since I came back from overseas in 1968. I will continue to profile.....by that, I mean anyone who doesn't meet MY definition of harmless, will be watched closer than other folks. I'm not going to call the law on them, or harass them in any way. I will not cause a scene, or draw any attention to the fact that I'm being a bit more observant of a particular individual. But, as I said, unless a person meets MY definition of harmless, I will pay closer attention to them.

    Point is, I'll profile whether a person is carrying in any fashion, or if they appear to be unarmed altogether.

    I've been carrying for 42 years ...... problem free ....... and I intend for things to remain that way.
    Very well said - my sentiments exactly. Semper Fi.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    That isn't profiling, that is collecting and following evidence AFTER the crime has been committed.
    You misunderstand my post. Profiling on a first hand personal basis it what some would call pe judging as in prejudiced. It is based on past experience and observations of an individual to asses a situation. The crime scene example was, maybe poorly, to exaggerate what trying to be politically correct would get you if you did not take into account evidence found at the at the crime scene and use it to "profile" the likely criminal. Silence of the Lambs?? Thank you for trying to edumacate me, really. I do understand profiling though.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    Yeah...um, not so much. I have no problem with L.E. observing a rough looking individual who is OCing. But in the name of consistency, it would be absolutely unacceptable for them to "harass" or even "check out" an OCer if there is no reasonable suspicion of illegal activity. Simply looking like a thug is not reasonable suspicion, nor is OCing (in OC states, of course). Therefore, looking like a thug while OCing is not reasonable suspicion, and an LEO who would detain such a person would (and has) find themselves the subject of a civil liberties lawsuit.

    Aside from that, you should also consider that it would be HIGHLY unlikely that a true thug would ever OC in the first place. Criminals don't like their unsuspecting victims or L.E. to know they are armed. Even if you wanted to make the argument that a thug might OC because he knows he cannot be harassed for it, this is equally unlikely because most criminals wouldn't even know that OC is legal in the first place.

    All things considered, regardless of their appearance, an OCer is very unlikely to be a person of interest.
    I agree completely I just had a conversation about this with someone that saw me OC today... They just asked a few questions like "Is it legal to carry a gun here" ETC... one of my statements was "how often do you hear of a robber pulling a gun from his holster... Not often..."

  7. #36
    I open carried today in Jeans and a black Xtreme Couture t-shirt, black baseball cap and Vans slip on shoes I have a full beard, my head is shaved, I have tattoos and my ears are pierced...

    Come to think about it I open carry this way EVERY DAY...



    I see only one thing wrong with the picture... I know I am FAT lol but gimme break I am working on it!
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

  8. #37
    Join Date
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    I agree, I profile a hell of a lot, I mean its really hard not to. Everyday you hear of a male, [race] and what crime he has committed, then you hear about these gang bangers robbing people or killing people for drugs, money or guns.
    You cant help but profile a certain person because race or they way they dress. The way they dress is always what throws up a couple of flags in my head, well, depends on what end of Flint I am on that given day.
    If people who OC didnt want to be harassed they would dress a little differently, especially in areas where theres alot of gangs. Bikers I dont worry about so much. Michigan isnt really known for the Biker gangs, weve got some closer to Detroit, but havent heard anything on them in quite a while
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  9. #38
    We were getting ready to leave a State Park one Sunday when this motorcycle gang rides up. They were a rough looking bunch but not quite Outlaw Bikers. My wife turned to me with a serious look on her face and my young daughter got close and grabbed around my leg. They stopped and started taking their helmets off and one of them called my name. Turned out it was a bunch of guys from my office out riding their bikes on a Sunday afternoon. All of them were the "Office Professional" types. You can bet I gave them down the country the next day about what a rough looking bunch of biker dudes they made.

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    We were getting ready to leave a State Park one Sunday when this motorcycle gang rides up. They were a rough looking bunch but not quite Outlaw Bikers. My wife turned to me with a serious look on her face and my young daughter got close and grabbed around my leg. They stopped and started taking their helmets off and one of them called my name. Turned out it was a bunch of guys from my office out riding their bikes on a Sunday afternoon. All of them were the "Office Professional" types. You can bet I gave them down the country the next day about what a rough looking bunch of biker dudes they made.
    Yesterday, I was out on my bike and rode over to Sullivan's Island and Isle of Palms. Right in the parkinglot at Breech Inlet, there was a young woman that was changing a flat tire on her small SUV. I stopped and parked my bike. I asked if she would like some help. She said "yes, that would be great".

    Well, she already had the jack out and under the car, which impressed me. But she was not strong enough to handle the lug bolts. So, my skinny butt got down there and whipped those suckers loose like they were nothing. LOL!! Of course, the young lady responded with the Mama taught response "Boy, you're strong. You got those off quick". Response ensuring that I would complete the entire job after hearing that. LOL!

    Anyway, got her going again, and then said, "You see, all bikers aren't bad people. Most will always help you when you are in trouble. They understand what it means to be stranded. Next time you need help when you're out on your own, look for a biker. Yo can always count on them."

    And Yes, I know what you're thinking. She wasn't too hard to look at either. LOL!!

  11. #40
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I agree, I profile a hell of a lot, I mean its really hard not to. Everyday you hear of a male, [race] and what crime he has committed, then you hear about these gang bangers robbing people or killing people for drugs, money or guns.
    You cant help but profile a certain person because race or they way they dress. The way they dress is always what throws up a couple of flags in my head...
    See, I think it's more prominent in bigger cities. "Out here", there's not the gangbangers or much in the way of biker clubs... Just a bunch of lower middle class folks, no matter their race. They're farmers or commuters. In city (and elsewhere), there are characters whose appearances raise flags, like you said, I just don't think it too fair to act on or harass them, other than keeping a closer eye on 'em.
    Don't do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics...

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