If I lawfully open carry can the police...? - Page 2
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Thread: If I lawfully open carry can the police...?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by polack View Post
    what states are open carry?
    The answer to your question is more easily answered by which states are not open carry:

    TX, OK, AR, FL, SC, NY, IL, and D.C are not. The rest are.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    The answer to your question is more easily answered by which states are not open carry:

    TX, OK, AR, FL, SC, NY, IL, and D.C are not. The rest are.
    Just to reiterate: remember that some "open carry" states do require a permit. Mine (ND) for example; you can only open carry if you have a CCW permit. Hmmm...that suggests to me that they can stop me to check to see if I have a permit. Interesting, because an LEO friend said recently that the watch commander told the shift that they could not stop someone simply because they are open-carrying.

    How do you read this, NavyLT?
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Just to reiterate: remember that some "open carry" states do require a permit. Mine (ND) for example; you can only open carry if you have a CCW permit. Hmmm...that suggests to me that they can stop me to check to see if I have a permit. Interesting, because an LEO friend said recently that the watch commander told the shift that they could not stop someone simply because they are open-carrying.

    How do you read this, NavyLT?
    As does my state of TN as far as having to have a permit goes, the reason for my first post in this thread.
    “Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

    Posting in …….
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    Tennessee Laws at: Michie’s Legal Resources

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    As does my state of TN as far as having to have a permit goes, the reason for my first post in this thread.
    Apologies. Must have had a brain seizure. Then, I do think they can stop us to check for a permit. I'm wondering now what the watch commander was alluding to.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Apologies. Must have had a brain seizure. Then, I do think they can stop us to check for a permit. I'm wondering now what the watch commander was alluding to.
    I know in TN they can and do ask to see permits of those OCing, but not always.

    Hard to believe in any state where a permit is required that they couldn't.
    “Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

    Posting in …….
    OpenCarry.org
    USA Carry
    Glock Talk
    Tennessee Gun Owners
    also check
    Handgunlaw.us
    Tennessee Laws at: Michie’s Legal Resources

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    I know in TN they can and do ask to see permits of those OCing, but not always.

    Hard to believe in any state where a permit is required that they couldn't.
    I'd have to agree. I open carry only a small percentage of the time but have met up with LEO more than once. Never been asked. Small town living, I guess.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Apologies. Must have had a brain seizure. Then, I do think they can stop us to check for a permit. I'm wondering now what the watch commander was alluding to.
    Kidnapping is a crime. Do you think the cops could stop you any time they wanted to in order to prove the children that are with you are actually yours and you are not a kidnapper?

    Also, here is your North Dakota Statute. Notice that you must produce a concealed weapon license in North Dakota if you are carrying a CONCEALED firearm. The law does NOT require you to produce the license if you are open carrying. Therefore, absent any evidence of a crime being committed, a LEO in North Dakota has no statutory basis to ask you to produce a license if you are open carrying...

    http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t621c04.pdf

    62.1-04-04. Producing license on demand. Every person while carrying a concealed
    firearm or dangerous weapon, for which a license to carry concealed is required, shall have on
    one's person the license issued by this or another state and shall give it to any law enforcement
    officer for an inspection upon demand by the officer. The failure of any person to give the license
    to the officer is prima facie evidence that the person is illegally carrying a firearm or dangerous
    weapon concealed.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    I know in TN they can and do ask to see permits of those OCing, but not always.

    Hard to believe in any state where a permit is required that they couldn't.
    Here is the Tennessee statute:

    (t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.
    That seems to indicate that in Tennessee the officer can stop and disarm an open carrier for "reasonable belief" it is necessary for the protection of anybody at all.... and they can hold on to that gun until you provide them a permit and thus fulfill the "provided the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section" requirement.

  10. #19
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    My point is that TN law 39-17-1307 make it illegal to carry a handgun/weapon period. Regardless of open or concealed. Having a permit issued per 39-17-1351 is only a defense against 39-17-1307 as listed in 39-17-1308.

    So if an officer sees you armed...as far as he knows you are violating 39-17-1307 until you produce a permit to defend yourself.

    There are also other states where you can "lawfully" carry openly, but only with a permit.

    Now in those states that issue "concealed" carry permits but open carry is legal without a permit, a LEO just seeing you Openly Carrying wouldn't have any reason to believe you are committing a crime sans any other evidence.

    I was only going by what JJFlash said himself "Mine (ND) for example; you can only open carry if you have a CCW permit."
    “Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

    Posting in …….
    OpenCarry.org
    USA Carry
    Glock Talk
    Tennessee Gun Owners
    also check
    Handgunlaw.us
    Tennessee Laws at: Michie’s Legal Resources

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    My point is that TN law 39-17-1307 make it illegal to carry a handgun/weapon period. Regardless of open or concealed. Having a permit issued per 39-17-1351 is only a defense against 39-17-1307 as listed in 39-17-1308.

    So if an officer sees you armed...as far as he knows you are violating 39-17-1307 until you produce a permit to defend yourself.

    There are also other states where you can "lawfully" carry openly, but only with a permit.

    Now in those states that issue "concealed" carry permits but open carry is legal without a permit, a LEO just seeing you Openly Carrying wouldn't have any reason to believe you are committing a crime sans any other evidence.

    I was only going by what JJFlash said himself "Mine (ND) for example; you can only open carry if you have a CCW permit."
    It's illegal in all 50 states to drive a car on public highways without a driver's license. Is driving a car on a public highway reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed because the driver may or not be license? Yet the Supreme Court has ruled that it is against the 4th amendment for a police officer to stop an individual for the sole purpose of checking to see if they have a driver's license or not. So what's the difference in a license being required to carry a gun?

    If a police officer legally detains you while you are carrying a gun, they certainly can require you to show the required license for that gun. But there has to be a legal reason to detain you to begin with. Simply performing an action that is legal, with a license, is no indication of a crime being committed, and; therefore, no basis for a lawful detention - just as the simple act of driving a car on a public highway is no basis for a lawful detention.

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