Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry - Page 2
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Thread: Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
    Link? I haven't heard this and if it's true then it's not normal Pierce County procedure. A link to the 'rest of the story' would help.
    The OP is talking about Tom Brewster.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...s-in-STARBUCKS
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    I'm not sure why anyone would have issue with presenting ID to a LEO that asked.
    If Joe Schmoe citizen came up to you in Starbucks and asked to see your driver's license would you show it to him?

    Tom Brewster was doing nothing in Starbucks other than ordering coffee, which is what people do in Starbucks. In that case, the person behind him was no more than Joe Schmoe citizen, just because he happened to be an off-duty Sheriff Deputy, because the off-duty Sheriff Deputy was not acting upon any indication at all that a crime had been committed or was about to be committed.

    When the off duty Deputy called for backup and three other uniformed officers arrived, they still had no more authority than Joe Schmoe off the street to ask to see Tom Brewster's driver's license. So why does a uniform make the difference, mappow? If I was in my Navy Lieutenant's uniform, would you show me your driver's license in Starbucks because I asked you for it?

    What some police officers need to understand, more so than even the average citizen, is that in states such as Washington, a holstered handgun is no different than a holstered cell phone. One of the major problems we face as a gun community is that supposed "pro-gun" people fail to see that as well. Just look at this thread:
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/conce...nal-carry.html

    I have great respect for police officers. I think 99% of them are good, honest, hard working people. Unfortunately, the 1% of them that are bad get 99% of the media/public attention..... just like gun situations, 99% of the time the gun is no issue at all, but the 1% of the time when the gun is involved in a bad situation - that gets 99% of the media/public attention.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #13
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    Hm, dont know what to say to this one, seen alot of things like this on here, especially about OC, where does the LEO see the threat? Was the man dressed like a thug? Doubtful, was he waving it around? Seemingly not... All I picture is an honest man, dressed in his AM work clothes, carrying a cup of coffee, I dont see the harm in this, and rightfully there isnt.
    LEOs [not all but a good slice anyways] need to realize the ones you need not worry about are the ones who have their weapon displayed for all to see, they need to worry about the ones who look like theyve just robbed a liquor store...Ones where theyre slid into a wasteband, no holster, and the shirt just barley covering it...Or better yet, maybe they should read the state laws, and especially ones pertaining to guns.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Hm, dont know what to say to this one, seen alot of things like this on here, especially about OC, where does the LEO see the threat?
    Everybody knows that a law abiding citizen, who knows what their rights are, exercises those rights, and is armed while doing so is a threat to no one except the government.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Everybody knows that a law abiding citizen, who knows what their rights are, exercises those rights, and is armed while doing so is a threat to no one except the government.
    I agree with what you say but may I add two words after government--and criminals. I guess that government and criminals are sometimes one in the same. It seems to me that these leo need to read the law and the Constitution particularly the 4th and 5th amendments.

  7. #16
    These crooks with badges were clearly in violation of Washington statute and well established case law.

    "When police break the law, there is no law. Just a fight for survival."-Billy Jack

    -Doc

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    The OP is talking about Tom Brewster.

    Harrassed by 4 sheriffs in STARBUCKS!
    Thanks NavyLT for clearing that up for me I thought that it had happened again.

  9. #18

    Smile Education is the key.

    NavyLT: Your basic premise is valid but the greatest problem in an open-carry situation is that the LEOs usually do not, in most cases, know the law and don't know how to react when someone conversant in the law challenges them. They seem to take it as a threat to their masculinity and the problems start. Also, it would not be uncommon for the local constabulary to dispute anything you might say, even if you read them the law, chapter and verse. We have a group down here now that is pushing to enlighten the law enforcement communities to our rights under both the Second Amendment and our state law. Education is the key to the problem. Until that is achieved, I can see no reason to take offense when a LEO makes an ID check and can't see the need to pump up my testosterone level to get into a heated argument. In the short run, I would lose; in the long run I can be vindicated but why go through all that hassle? Life is too short to walk around with a chip on one's shoulder.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    NavyLT: Your basic premise is valid but the greatest problem in an open-carry situation is that the LEOs usually do not, in most cases, know the law and don't know how to react when someone conversant in the law challenges them.
    And, therefore, I must cater to them and willfully relinquish my rights at their whim?



    BTW, the Washington State Constitution offers stronger protections of rights than the US Constitution does:

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/LAWSANDAGENCYR...stitution.aspx

    SECTION 7 INVASION OF PRIVATE AFFAIRS OR HOME PROHIBITED. No person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law.

    SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #20
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    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    If Joe Schmoe citizen came up to you in Starbucks and asked to see your driver's license would you show it to him?

    Tom Brewster was doing nothing in Starbucks other than ordering coffee, which is what people do in Starbucks. In that case, the person behind him was no more than Joe Schmoe citizen, just because he happened to be an off-duty Sheriff Deputy, because the off-duty Sheriff Deputy was not acting upon any indication at all that a crime had been committed or was about to be committed.

    When the off duty Deputy called for backup and three other uniformed officers arrived, they still had no more authority than Joe Schmoe off the street to ask to see Tom Brewster's driver's license. So why does a uniform make the difference, mappow? If I was in my Navy Lieutenant's uniform, would you show me your driver's license in Starbucks because I asked you for it?

    What some police officers need to understand, more so than even the average citizen, is that in states such as Washington, a holstered handgun is no different than a holstered cell phone. One of the major problems we face as a gun community is that supposed "pro-gun" people fail to see that as well. Just look at this thread:
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/conce...nal-carry.html

    I have great respect for police officers. I think 99% of them are good, honest, hard working people. Unfortunately, the 1% of them that are bad get 99% of the media/public attention..... just like gun situations, 99% of the time the gun is no issue at all, but the 1% of the time when the gun is involved in a bad situation - that gets 99% of the media/public attention.
    LT your explanation is way more then the original post. Hence my comment on the original post. This situation escalated due to numerous factors, all of which were not expounded on.
    I fail to see nothing, but my rights. I also will not stand toe to toe with an LEO. (rhyme unintended) Being a citizen with rRghts does not guarantee me those Rights to be honored in the street all the time. Hopefully more education of ALL will help ebb these anomalies.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

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