Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry - Page 3
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Thread: Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

  1. #21

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    And, therefore, I must cater to them and willfully relinquish my rights at their whim?



    BTW, the Washington State Constitution offers stronger protections of rights than the US Constitution does:

    Washington State Constitution
    Hey L.T.: Nope, don't mean that at all. As I said, we are all in a learning process down here as well as other places. As a rule, open carry has not been done for quite some time to the degree people are pushing for now and and that is taking some getting used to by both LEOs and the general populace. This is going to be an educational process showing what our rights are and needs to be done without everybody having a confrontational attitude. I had a long talk with our sheriff concerning OC and he has no problem with it and there is even a short film clip of him on here giving his views. It may take a little time to get everything where we want it but we will get there. You are extremely fortunate in having Washington State provide such protection of your rights as are the people of Texas, Arizona, and all the other states who are more progressive about gun rights. As for catering to LEOs and willfully relinquishing our rights, no, we do not do that. We push back, but not so far as to get arrested. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I can see where you are coming from and respect your opinion in doing things as you feel best. That is what we do, also. And to coin a phrase, "Different strokes for different folks."

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  3. #22
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wuzfuz View Post
    Recently in Pierce County, WA, a gentleman was in a Starbuck's enjoying his regular morning cup of starter fluid. He had been comin in for his AM coffee for two years, and during that two years, he had his semi-auto pistol on his hip, as Washington is an Open Carry state. This morning was different, however. A Pierce County deputy sheriff entered the shop and demanded the man's identification. The man refused, rightly, IMHO, as he was doing nothing wrong. He was arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail. A spokesman for the department stated than when there is a possible threat, the police have the right to investigate. Why do some police figure that your gun is a possible threat, and theirs is not? How does a citizen legally exercizing his Second Amendment rights constitute a threat? I understand the charges were eventually dropped, but as a former LEO myself, I don't see the reason for the arrest to begin with. Does a citizen legally carrying his sidearm in accordance with state law actually equate with a wild-eyed maniac shooting up a peaceful business? I think the deputy owes the gentleman an abject, sincere apology.
    I think most police believe they, and only they, have the right to legally carry a handgun. When I was in the Marines, I used to carry way more firepower than most any cops do, but they don't care about that. I think it is a slow process of bending their minds to think that only they can handle themselves with a firearm. Its a sad state of affairs that makes a society slowly change to the point of oblivion, and I am afraid that is where we are going. The way the civilian police (I say that because many of them fancy themselves some sort of military operators) are slowly turning against gun owning American citizens is proof of what I am trying to say.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Hey L.T.: Nope, don't mean that at all. As I said, we are all in a learning process down here as well as other places. As a rule, open carry has not been done for quite some time to the degree people are pushing for now and and that is taking some getting used to by both LEOs and the general populace. This is going to be an educational process showing what our rights are and needs to be done without everybody having a confrontational attitude.
    Just a question... I am getting coffee in Starbucks in Washington or in Virginia and a police officer (on duty or not) wants to see my ID to check and see if I am a felon or not simply because I am carrying a gun. In your opinion, what would be the difference between having a confrontational attitude or not?

    If I respectfully refuse to show ID am I being confrontational?

    If the officer refuses to accept my refusal and will not let me go about my business in peace, at what point do I become confrontational?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    You are extremely fortunate in having Washington State provide such protection of your rights as are the people of Texas, Arizona, and all the other states who are more progressive about gun rights.
    I must beg to differ with you regarding Texas. They are one of about 10 of the most oppressive states in regards to the right to CARRY a gun. There is no form of permit-less carry in Texas AND there is NO open carry at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    As for catering to LEOs and willfully relinquishing our rights, no, we do not do that. We push back, but not so far as to get arrested.
    Ummmmm...... so then as soon as the officer breaks out the handcuffs we say, "OK, OK, hold on there, officer, there is no need for that.... here you go, sir, here is my ID card?" But at least I exercised my rights up to that point. It just seems to me like that is what you are saying.

    I have been in that situation, BTW. Eating dinner in a restaurant when basically the exact same thing happened to me. Except I had already showed him my ID and he continued to harass me only because I would not conceal my gun. He threatened me with writing a citation. I told him go ahead, write the citation, because if he didn't I was going to go back into the restaurant and continue to eat my dinner. He was bluffing. I have learned greatly from that experience.

    I think 99% of the cops out there are decent guys and I don't go around seeking confrontations with them. But I am not going to turn belly up for the 1% of bad cops, regardless of if they are twirling handcuffs on their finger or not.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Everybody knows that a law abiding citizen, who knows what their rights are, exercises those rights, and is armed while doing so is a threat to no one except the government.
    Big +1 on that.

  6. #25
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Just a question... I am getting coffee in Starbucks in Washington or in Virginia and a police officer (on duty or not) wants to see my ID to check and see if I am a felon or not simply because I am carrying a gun. In your opinion, what would be the difference between having a confrontational attitude or not?

    If I respectfully refuse to show ID am I being confrontational?

    If the officer refuses to accept my refusal and will not let me go about my business in peace, at what point do I become confrontational?



    I must beg to differ with you regarding Texas. They are one of about 10 of the most oppressive states in regards to the right to CARRY a gun. There is no form of permit-less carry in Texas AND there is NO open carry at all.




    Ummmmm...... so then as soon as the officer breaks out the handcuffs we say, "OK, OK, hold on there, officer, there is no need for that.... here you go, sir, here is my ID card?" But at least I exercised my rights up to that point. It just seems to me like that is what you are saying.

    I have been in that situation, BTW. Eating dinner in a restaurant when basically the exact same thing happened to me. Except I had already showed him my ID and he continued to harass me only because I would not conceal my gun. He threatened me with writing a citation. I told him go ahead, write the citation, because if he didn't I was going to go back into the restaurant and continue to eat my dinner. He was bluffing. I have learned greatly from that experience.

    I think 99% of the cops out there are decent guys and I don't go around seeking confrontations with them. But I am not going to turn belly up for the 1% of bad cops, regardless of if they are twirling handcuffs on their finger or not.
    Excellent post. I agree with you 100%. In the small town where I live the police chief is a bully. I know of times he has harrassed people lawfully carrying their guns. The chief even has said that any gun permit he issues would NOT be good outside this county. I know that he is full of baloney and being less than truthfull. I and others have read the RCW regarding a CPL and open carry. My CPL is issued by the county sheriff. The problem is here and other places very few individuals are willing to stand up for their rights. Plus here the local news refuses to publish the times when an individual does stand up for their rights. The chief does not harrass me because I know my rights and exercise them. Like you I do not go around seeking confrontations with leo but Im not going to turn the other cheek. I will respect any leo as long as he(or she) treats me with respect and follows the law. If we do not stand up for our rights who will?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    The chief even has said that any gun permit he issues would NOT be good outside this county.
    That's interesting.... better look at your CPL, about 1/3 of the way down and make sure it says "State of Washington Concealed Pistol License"!
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by wuzfuz View Post
    Recently in Pierce County, WA, a gentleman was in a Starbuck's enjoying his regular morning cup of starter fluid. He had been comin in for his AM coffee for two years, and during that two years, he had his semi-auto pistol on his hip, as Washington is an Open Carry state. This morning was different, however. A Pierce County deputy sheriff entered the shop and demanded the man's identification. The man refused, rightly, IMHO, as he was doing nothing wrong. He was arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail. A spokesman for the department stated than when there is a possible threat, the police have the right to investigate. Why do some police figure that your gun is a possible threat, and theirs is not? How does a citizen legally exercizing his Second Amendment rights constitute a threat? I understand the charges were eventually dropped, but as a former LEO myself, I don't see the reason for the arrest to begin with. Does a citizen legally carrying his sidearm in accordance with state law actually equate with a wild-eyed maniac shooting up a peaceful business? I think the deputy owes the gentleman an abject, sincere apology.
    The individual should file a United States Code 1985 against the officer and charge the officer and any others who conspired under USC title 18 chapter 13, 241 & 242. This will stop this unlawful activity. I would give links but not familiar with this setup yet.

  9. #28
    just show your ID and let that be it. no time for going down town and tell them to have a bless day

  10. #29

    Smile "...when do you quit pushing?"

    Hey L.T.: I have read a lot of your posts and agree with a lot you have expressed. You seem to be very knowledgeable and up to date on Second Amendment rights and the gun laws of the various states. I commend you for that, however, you and I disagree on how we would react to given situations concerning encounters with law enforcement personnel. It seems that you want total agreement with your stance which I can not do. After a lot of years on this earth, I have learned that being adversarial or confrontational is not always the best course of action in situations we have discussed. To paraphrase your comment, "...when do you quit pushing...when the cuffs come out?" Yes, I think that would be an appropriate time to shut up and acquiesce to the officer. But the situation would not necessarily end there. I have other avenues that I can pursue to get redress so, why unnecessarily cause an encounter that would make me or any other armed person look foolish? Again, I do commend you for your stance and all the information you impart and always make it a point to read your posts. They do keep things lively!

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Hey L.T.: I have read a lot of your posts and agree with a lot you have expressed. You seem to be very knowledgeable and up to date on Second Amendment rights and the gun laws of the various states. I commend you for that, however, you and I disagree on how we would react to given situations concerning encounters with law enforcement personnel. It seems that you want total agreement with your stance which I can not do. After a lot of years on this earth, I have learned that being adversarial or confrontational is not always the best course of action in situations we have discussed. To paraphrase your comment, "...when do you quit pushing...when the cuffs come out?" Yes, I think that would be an appropriate time to shut up and acquiesce to the officer. But the situation would not necessarily end there. I have other avenues that I can pursue to get redress so, why unnecessarily cause an encounter that would make me or any other armed person look foolish? Again, I do commend you for your stance and all the information you impart and always make it a point to read your posts. They do keep things lively!
    How do you look foolish for standing up for your rights?

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