Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry - Page 5
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Thread: Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    L.T.: I think we have beaten this dead horse long enough and we are at an impasse that I don't feel we can resolve. I respect your right to use whatever means you like to assert yourself to a LEO. You may be arrested for your stance and I will wave as you pass in the back seat of the cruiser. Without a doubt, you will emerge victorious in the end because the law will be on your side. My question is, "Why go to all that trouble just to prove a point?" My masculinity is not threatened by showing my ID to a LEO so, while you are taking your ride in the cruiser, I will be drinking coffee and BSing with my friends. Later, you will be knee deep in law suits against the municipality and police force and spending a lot of money (which you may or may not get back) to reinforce your rights. Hardly seems worth it to me but I would not deny you the right to do your thing! Happy trails.
    This is just my opinion but it is people who think like you do that has caused people like LT and me to have to put up with LEO's who try to do illegal things thinking that they are allowed due to everyone else bending over and giving up their legal rights to avoid being arrested. When you allow LEO's to walk over your legal rights you are reinforcing their bad and illegal behavior.

    This is why our rights are where they are at now. During the old west no permit was needed to go from Mississippi to California with your six gun and rifle . But some How it is now seen as a safety hazard if a US citizen did what was done back then without a problem or permit/license.

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  3. #42
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    Was the last generation even taught the Constitution in school? Because they sure hell can't say god, gun, or flag in school....

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    In my case, where it actually happened to me (threatened with citation), the officer was bluffing when I called it.
    Well, if you had been charged while standing up for your 2A/4A 'rights,' that would certainly have presented your security officer and the first Captain (O-6) in your chain-of-command with an interesting decision regarding any clearances you have while they waited for things to play out.

    Actually, in my service, it wouldn't have been much of a decision...access would have been pulled immediately and the officer assigned to unclass admin duties until a review took place. Unfortunately, even if totally exonerated, those sorts of perturbations have a way of being remembered come performance review time. I don't like it but it happens as voluntary retention remains at an all-time high and there's usually someone equally well qualified for the top promotion recommendations who hasn't managed to get himself/herself arrested or otherwise noticed in a negative light. Probably works differently in the Navy though. Then again maybe not, Captain Honors didn't fare too well.


    3X PM

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    Well, if you had been charged while standing up for your 2A/4A 'rights,' that would certainly have presented your security officer and the first Captain (O-6) in your chain-of-command with an interesting decision regarding any clearances you have while they waited for things to play out.

    Actually, in my service, it wouldn't have been much of a decision...access would have been pulled immediately and the officer assigned to unclass admin duties until a review took place. Unfortunately, even if totally exonerated, those sorts of perturbations have a way of being remembered come performance review time. I don't like it but it happens as voluntary retention remains at an all-time high and there's usually someone equally well qualified for the top promotion recommendations who hasn't managed to get himself/herself arrested or otherwise noticed in a negative light. Probably works differently in the Navy though. Then again maybe not, Captain Honors didn't fare too well.
    In the Navy we don't "hang" people for problems out in town unless one of two conditions exist -

    1. They are actually convicted of something.
    2. There exists evidence that they committed some crime.

    Let's say a guy gets a DUI out in town. We won't do anything in the Navy unless we have a BAC measurement that shows he was DUI. Then we'll take him to CO Mast based on the BAC, before the case is adjudicated out in town. Or, if he is found guilty out in town based on a field sobriety test, then we will deal with it in the Navy as well.

    I guess we are lucky that we, as a military service, don't bow down and worship police officers out in town like it sounds like your service/command did.

    And it's funny, no actually make that sad, how you say your service/command would punish a person for upholding their oath to support and defend the constitution.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #45

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    This is just my opinion but it is people who think like you do that has caused people like LT and me to have to put up with LEO's who try to do illegal things thinking that they are allowed due to everyone else bending over and giving up their legal rights to avoid being arrested. When you allow LEO's to walk over your legal rights you are reinforcing their bad and illegal behavior.

    This is why our rights are where they are at now. During the old west no permit was needed to go from Mississippi to California with your six gun and rifle . But some How it is now seen as a safety hazard if a US citizen did what was done back then without a problem or permit/license.
    Kasper: Please, you give me too much credit for causing you and everyone else problems. This has gotten to the point of being ridiculous. If you have problems, it is because you caused them, not me. I try to conduct myself in a civilized manner in all my undertakings. If showing your ID to a LEO is offensive to you, don't do it. Don't blame me for your problems. I choose to do things my way as does everyone else. If your way backfires on you, suck it up, that was your choice. I don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me. Still, I do enjoy reading your comments so please don't stop. Every once in a while I even agree with you.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Kasper: Please, you give me too much credit for causing you and everyone else problems. This has gotten to the point of being ridiculous. If you have problems, it is because you caused them, not me. I try to conduct myself in a civilized manner in all my undertakings. If showing your ID to a LEO is offensive to you, don't do it. Don't blame me for your problems. I choose to do things my way as does everyone else. If your way backfires on you, suck it up, that was your choice. I don't have to agree with you and you don't have to agree with me. Still, I do enjoy reading your comments so please don't stop. Every once in a while I even agree with you.
    Sorry but take the credit you deserve. By you letting them walk over your rights they become empowered to believe that the can walk over other peoples rights the way they walked over yours.

    I had this happen today when going to jury duty. They wanted me to take off my watch and ring I asked them why and got told because we told you to. I told them no I will not do that and to get their manager over here. They called the sheriff over and he tells me I have 2 options do what they say or leave. I replied I have as much right to be here as they due for it is my tax dollars paying for their services and you services here. That when he said I will charge you with obstruction if you keep this up. Thats when I replied give me back my belongs and I will leave. I walk around to the other entrance and seen the sheriff standing looking out the window to see if I was coming in that way. By this time I had gotten the name of the head of security who was a sheriff and I asked for him when I got to the door. Their attitude had changed at the front door due to the news crews being there. They let me in and had them do a through security screening of me and my belongings. Every time the security guard would ask if it was ok to pat me down where the metal detector went off at after giving him the ok he would pat me down. The lady sheriff said that it was due to my behavior at the other door I was screened longer then anyone else and that if I had just went along with their orders it would not take as long. I told her no I will not allow you or the security guards to walk over my rights given to me by the US constitution. She then replied you should hurry cause you are already late for jury duty.

    So what I got from that is they like people like you who will give up their legal rights when asked to by them. And look at me and others as a problem starter for knowing our rights and not giving them up.

    So just remember when you give up your rights they then think that everyone they ask will do the same.

    If the news crews where not there I probably would have ended up in a jail cell for obstruction, which is the most bogus charge they can legally charge you with.

  8. #47

    Smile

    Kasper: Probably had to do with their metal detector but I agree their attitude was out of line. Anyway, thanks for the accolades

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Kasper: Probably had to do with their metal detector but I agree their attitude was out of line. Anyway, thanks for the accolades
    No it was not my watch it is made from ceramics that is used on space craft it has not set off any metal detectors that I have had to go through. I bought it due to I could keep time without worrying about being shocked or electrocuted while working since it will not conduct electricity.

    But I do agree that you are not fully to blame for the problems and your way of dealing with it is the most easiest but does not help to solve the problem.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    It's got nothing to do with masculinity. It's called the 4th amendment. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the US against ALL enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC.

    Some people just take that oath to greater length than others.

    In your case, you will have to prove that you were coerced into involuntarily showing your ID when not required to do so by law. You will say in court, the officer threatened to arrest me. The officer will say, no, I merely asked him to cooperate by showing me ID and he did so voluntarily.

    In my case, the officer will have to prove justification for an arrest.

    Which case do you think will be easier to win in court?

    Besides, you will never if the officer was bluffing unless you call his bluff. In my case, where it actually happened to me (threatened with citation), the officer was bluffing when I called it.
    Man, I really have to hang out in the OC forum more often, this is a good one.

    As usual LT, at least on my end, we are in complete agreement on ideology. I have not served in the armed forces to affirm my oath, but I personally feel I took an oath to the Constitution simply by being born here and enjoying the liberties our forefathers gave me.

    As for the original subject of this thread, I've personally stood up to my fair share of LE, once even telling a LEO to get his damn hand out of my pocket when he tried to search me for OC. He tried to bluff me and it didn't work.

    I am not afraid to go to jail to stand up for my constitutional rights and neither should anyone else be. PEOPLE DIED standing up for our rights and I'm supposed to be afraid of a concrete cell that I probably won't be in for even 24 hours? There's nothing to be afraid of, they can't eat me.

    Maybe things are a bit different around my neck of the woods, maybe LE isn't so gung ho as other parts of the country as most LE i've encountered didn't even care. But maybe that's because there are more people like me here than some other states, so we've never let ours get out of line.

    There's even a phrase coined here, we call it the "Kentucky Lottery". There have been a few ignorant LEOs in Louisville that made the mistake of arresting someone for OC. They learned the gravity of their mistake and so did the city coffers.

    Stand up for your rights people! Use 'em or lose 'em.
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by rlkraatz View Post
    HI
    Everyone in this country has a 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. When it is a right it should not be questioned. A holstered gun is not a threat. A holstered gun should not be questioned.

    Every policing area of this country should have a citizen review board. The review board should be made up of 4 citizens and 3 police officers. A review board should review each and every case that comes in question of being legal. After this review board starts to act on these cases they will stop.

    Until we have citizen review boards the problems will continue.

    WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CONSTITUTION !
    What if the 4 citizens are a bunch of bed wetting, communist, socialist democrates? And the officers will be planning to run for higher position.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."Frederic Bastia

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