Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry - Page 7
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Thread: Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    This is why it's SO important to record police encounters where it's lawful to do so.
    Yeah, that too.

  2.   
  3. Treatment of LEOs

    Assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your ID.

    Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your ID. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

    If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the Starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ccwaz View Post
    Assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your ID.

    Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your ID. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

    If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the Starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack.
    The simple solution is to ask, "Am I being detained?" If the cop is investigating a robbery or any other crime, the answer will be, "Yes." Then you cooperate with the officer after you have ascertained that you are being detained, and if you desire to take the matter to court, the officer will have to prove his lawful basis for detaining you.

    If the officer is not investigating a crime, and he answers, "No", then excuse yourself and either ask the officer to leave you alone or walk away.

    It's as simple as that. "Am I being detained?" "Yes." The whole interaction would take less time that it took me to type it, which was 3 seconds. That is not making the officer's job any more difficult. It's simply establishing the ground rules of the game right up front.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #64
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwaz View Post
    Assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your ID.

    Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your ID. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

    If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the Starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack.
    I will call BS on your statement I placed a 911 call to the police 15 minutes before a gun shot was fired it took the police 45 minutes after the first gun shot to arrive at the Kent Denny's. When they did get there wearing bullet proof vest and carrying AR15 they began by harassing the innocent citizens that were in the restaurant. So tell that lie to someone else who is dumb enough to believe it.

    The case stems from a Jan. 21, 2007, early-morning incident at the Denny's, located at 1246 N. Central Ave., where all three of Perey's clients had been dining, before a fight at the restaurant erupted in gunfire.
    Meanwhile, Evans came in with another group of people, rowdy after drinking at another restaurant, and having been thrown out by security there. Now at Denny’s, Evans picked a fight with a customer, who beat him up. Evans left the restaurant, then minutes later returned with a Glock .40 semiautomatic handgun, which he used to spray the inside of the restaurant with 11 bullets. He fled, and customers and staff frantically called 911.
    Being that I was in the group that he tried harassing. I call 911 as soon as he got done throwing a plate of food on the floor and saying "what you doing sitting at my table?" In my mind no one is that stupid on their own so I picked up my phone and called 911. I had to hand the phone to the waitress for her to give them the address. 10 minutes later the guy walks back in and opens fire hitting 4 people. It took the police department 45 minutes after the last shot to arrive there and when they did one of their not so finest decided that if the person is black that they have to be the one who did the shooting and started to harass my friend who just got back from Iraq without being shot to get shot in the ass while eating in his own country then thrown against the wall by the rude police officer.

    So while I know not all police act this way enough of them do to make people not trust them. And I don't blame them for taking the time to get suited up before arriving, As I know I would have if I was them. The problem is the attitude that one police office showed threw an overcast on the other police officers who had done nothing wrong and were being helpful to the citizens in need of help.

    And as I was taught treat people the way you want to be treated, and respect is a two way street.

    For some reason most of the police have not been taught those lessens and decide to treat people as criminals who don't deserve any respect but need to show them respect.

    So if I match the description given over his radio. When he decides to approach me and ask for my ID why not tell me the reason he needs to see my ID. I would be more then willing to show him my ID if he tells me the reason he needs to see it. But just to say because I am the law and I said so does not work for me.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwaz View Post
    Assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your ID.

    Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your ID. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

    If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the Starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack.
    Height and weight is not much to go on and if I just robbed a store I wouldn't be calmly walking down the street with my pistol in plain view. I say it's safe to assume that most crooks are at least that smart.

    Also I don't have to treat anybody with respect even though I try to be very respectful toward others regardless of their profession. However I will not show respect to someone that does not respect me. An officer making unlawfull demands and backing them with threats is not someone that deserves respect.

    Your last comment is pure nonsense. I can instantly think of at least three shootings where police waited outside until the shooter took their own life. I can't think of a single time an officer put their life on the line for me, or anyone I know for that matter. My plumber has put his life at greater risk for me than local LE.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

  7. #66
    I see where this is another thread wherein the camps are settling down into "generally confrontational" or "generally non-confrontational" courses of action.

    Now, from my POV, what is the harm in ID'ing yourself to an LEO? "Justified" or not? In the case of OC, in particular, it is YOUR "display" that invited the potential confrontation and the question from the LEO..... legal from the LEO's perspective or not. (Another reason to stick with CC... which reduces "display" problems to a minimum.)

    For the LEO, an innocuous request for ID just might be the means by which the LEO satisfies his curiosity as to whether or not the OC person is going to act like a boor or act like a civilized citizen.

    I have personally found that treating LEOs with proper respect for and during interpersonal interactions generally wins more support from both the LEOs and any casual observers to the "incident" in the long run.

    1) Gives you the stage for setting the rest of the encounter in a civil manner.

    2) Gives casual observers the idea that you are "with" the law, rather than contrary to it. (Also gives those same observers the idea that respect for the law is tantamount, despite the fact that you are personally armed well enough to take care of yourself.)

    3) Gives the LEO the feeling that you respect his authority. (Again, even if it is being misapplied by that LEO.)

    4) It cements the idea that your overall "goals" (i.e. thwarting criminal activity) and his are one and the same and that you are not, through your "display" attempting to somehow diminish HIS authority in the accomplishment of the same goal. (Some folks DO have extremely touchy egos, ya know!)

    5) In the long run, having "won over" an LEO through honey rather than pointing out (in public) the errors of his ways is going to insure that THIS LEO, at any rate, is going to consider you more likely a good guy rather than a pain in the butt for any further encounters.

    It might be noted, however, that primary use of CC rather than OC would go a long way toward preventing any potential "incidents" in the first place. "Right" to do something does NOT necessarily mean you have to do it, regardless of the concerns and feelings of your fellow citizens.

    There really ARE citizens who become upset at the sight of guns. This does not necessarily mean that they want to take our gun rights away from us, they just tend to get nervous over the matter. (The more rural the area, the less you will find that sort of person. Just the way of things.)

    Another little item I try to take into consideration in my day to day activities is the concern I have for the feelings of my fellow humans and their pursuit of life and their rights. Out of that concern, I am NOT one to pack a hand cannon on my hip in my daily activities without reguard for the distress I might cause my fellow citizens in so doing. EVEN IF IT IS MY ABSOLUTE "RIGHT" TO DO SO!

    LT: THAT is where we had our falling out when you tried to "call me out" over our little disagreement over CC versus OC. I couldn't quite put my finger on it before, but your "signature" tells all. You really don't care about anything except the single minded pursuit of what you consider YOUR rights, everyone else..... get stuffed! (Maybe I'll give you a tissue. How considerate!)

    That places you right alongside those spectacular jerks who have the "right" to demonstrate at military funerals, and do so, despite the total lack of civility, manners and decorum involved.

    I'm not so calloused as to believe that the exercise of my rights, even when MOST proper to do so, trumps a little concern for the sensitivities, feelings and manners we are expected to show other humans, out of a sence of manners and civility more than anything else.

    Just sayin'. Guess I side with oldgrunt on this one.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  8. This sight of a person taking responsibility for their self-protection and the protection of their loved ones bothers some people. There are people out there that feel that the government is responsible to protect them from criminals. I am sorry for that. That does not make it any less acceptable of an action to do, however. I feel that an openly carried firearm is the most effective way for me to offer protection for myself and my family. I am sorry that there are people who are offended or scared by that. I am not going to give up the deterrent value of the visible firearm in order to appease the irrational fears of the minority.

    There are groups of people out there scared of persons carrying concealed firearms. So, out of consideration for them, you shouldn't carry a concealed firearm, right?

    As far as giving in to every order and whim of officers. This country was founded by a group of men who would not tolerate abuses of power forced upon them by the government. All I am doing is taking the same actions the founding fathers did.

    Things are not going to get any better in this country if we don't set the proper example of what it truly means to be an American. That means that we don't let the government step on our rights, when we have the power to prevent it.... and it means that we are responsible for our own self-protection against the criminal element.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #68
    Join Date
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    Location
    washington state
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    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    Dam this post sounds more like an episode of "In the Heat of the Night" then free wheeling, anything goes Washington State. (NO malice or harm implied) I thought this crap only happen in the Old South.
    I would refer you to the US Attorney Generals Office for your State. He, his office will advise you any possible redress and or investigation that may/could be initiated. Just moving away from the problem does not do anyone any good. Especially those that still live in that jurisdiction. JUST my input, good luck and God Bless.
    Thanks for the input. You are right.

  10. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    1) This sight of a person taking responsibility for their self-protection and the protection of their loved ones bothers some people. There are people out there that feel that the government is responsible to protect them from criminals. I am sorry for that. That does not make it any less acceptable of an action to do, however. I feel that an openly carried firearm is the most effective way for me to offer protection for myself and my family. I am sorry that there are people who are offended or scared by that. I am not going to give up the deterrent value of the visible firearm in order to appease the irrational fears of the minority.

    2) There are groups of people out there scared of persons carrying concealed firearms. So, out of consideration for them, you shouldn't carry a concealed firearm, right?

    3) As far as giving in to every order and whim of officers. This country was founded by a group of men who would not tolerate abuses of power forced upon them by the government. All I am doing is taking the same actions the founding fathers did.

    4) Things are not going to get any better in this country if we don't set the proper example of what it truly means to be an American. That means that we don't let the government step on our rights, when we have the power to prevent it.... and it means that we are responsible for our own self-protection against the criminal element.
    1) We've already gone through the OC/CC plusses and minuses. Moot point by now. You're "convinced". Fine.

    2) Main difference, which seems to escape you, is that they don't KNOW I'm armed if I am CC. Whereas if I have a hand cannon on my hip, removes all shadow of a doubt.... which puts back into concern for THEIR sensitivities, which you don't give a large rodent's posterior about, apparently. Thus... ANOTHER moot point.

    3) Where did I EVER say "giving in" to EVERY whim of the LEO's? I gave a specific case study, with reasons for my opinion and you try to make a generic statement out of it. A rhetorical game, been done before. (Plato is the earliest example I can recall.)

    4) According to you then.... the "Proper example" to be a REAL American is to go about armed, openly, 24/7, verbally confront anyone and everyone who looks askance at your "display", treat as sob sisters and weaklings anyone who doesn't coincide to your "reasoning" and to be as obnoxious and as confrontational as possible, from all appearances. (Definitive example of "The Ugly American", IMHO.)

    When we first "crossed swords", I mentioned, half in jest, "Are you lookin' for a fight, buddy?" I'll be damned if it seems to turn out that you ARE! JUST the type of person to be "packing heat" 24/7. (That's sarcasm.)

    The sign of a great society is NOT how many gunslingers there are running around the streets, legal or not. The sign of a great society is CIVILITY! Toward one another. A little item seemingly lost on you.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    4) According to you then.... the "Proper example" to be a REAL American is to go about armed, openly, 24/7, verbally confront anyone and everyone who looks askance at your "display", treat as sob sisters and weaklings anyone who doesn't coincide to your "reasoning" and to be as obnoxious and as confrontational as possible, from all appearances. (Definitive example of "The Ugly American", IMHO.)
    This is what is scaring some people, Gunny...



    Come on, now.... REALLY? You REALLY think I should change this, just because a few people are scared by it?

    This is the "hand cannon" that I terrorize the public with:

    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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