Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry
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Thread: Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

  1. Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

    Recently in Pierce County, WA, a gentleman was in a Starbuck's enjoying his regular morning cup of starter fluid. He had been comin in for his AM coffee for two years, and during that two years, he had his semi-auto pistol on his hip, as Washington is an Open Carry state. This morning was different, however. A Pierce County deputy sheriff entered the shop and demanded the man's identification. The man refused, rightly, IMHO, as he was doing nothing wrong. He was arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail. A spokesman for the department stated than when there is a possible threat, the police have the right to investigate. Why do some police figure that your gun is a possible threat, and theirs is not? How does a citizen legally exercizing his Second Amendment rights constitute a threat? I understand the charges were eventually dropped, but as a former LEO myself, I don't see the reason for the arrest to begin with. Does a citizen legally carrying his sidearm in accordance with state law actually equate with a wild-eyed maniac shooting up a peaceful business? I think the deputy owes the gentleman an abject, sincere apology.
    A man without a gun is a subject; a man with a gun is a citizen.
    I'll keep my freedom, my guns and my money. You can keep THE CHANGE.
    An armed society is a polite society.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuzfuz View Post
    Recently in Pierce County, WA, a gentleman was in a Starbuck's enjoying his regular morning cup of starter fluid. He had been comin in for his AM coffee for two years, and during that two years, he had his semi-auto pistol on his hip, as Washington is an Open Carry state. This morning was different, however. A Pierce County deputy sheriff entered the shop and demanded the man's identification. The man refused, rightly, IMHO, as he was doing nothing wrong. He was arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail. A spokesman for the department stated than when there is a possible threat, the police have the right to investigate. Why do some police figure that your gun is a possible threat, and theirs is not? How does a citizen legally exercizing his Second Amendment rights constitute a threat? I understand the charges were eventually dropped, but as a former LEO myself, I don't see the reason for the arrest to begin with. Does a citizen legally carrying his sidearm in accordance with state law actually equate with a wild-eyed maniac shooting up a peaceful business? I think the deputy owes the gentleman an abject, sincere apology.
    Just goes to show how the Police are trying to keep the public pissed at them. You would think that after what has happened here in Washington that the LEO's would want to have a better rapport with the communities they serve and protect.

    I feel that the LEO's in Washington State are in for a rude awakening if they continue acting the way they have been acting. For the last two weeks Seattle LEO'S have been shown on the news for their over use of force when dealing with citizens. The LEO that murdered the wood carver and the outcome of the report showed the public just how immune the LEO's are when breaking the laws that they are to be enforcing.

    So for now I would not open carry my firearm unless you want to take the chance at being shot by the LEO's. And from the report the LEO's will be justified in murdering you due to you having a gun on your hip that lead them to fear for their safety.

    So for now if you OC you need to to be ready to give your ID to the LEO or get ready to go to jail. Even though the LEO's have no right to stop and detain you they will.

  4. #3
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    sounds like a great case for a civil suit

  5. #4

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by vettefreak View Post
    sounds like a great case for a civil suit
    It could be a great case except it would probably cost the man in question a fortune. There was another thread on here a while back where an individual was OCing in Starbucks and had four deputies questioning him. In that case he held his ground and, after several minutes, they backed off. I used to have a lot of respect for LEOs but that is dwindling now and it seems you have to be prepared for a confrontation everytime you OC anywhere! Guess we should organize now into groups to educate our local populace and the LEOs about our rights and stick to it, even filing law suits. Ridiculous to have to go that far but, what the hell, I'm retired and don't have anything else to do.

  6. #5
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    I think that most leo are honest and are trying to do the right thing. However there are plenty of bad leo(some of which are where I live) who give a bad name to the honest ones. Many states have a 'stop and identify' laws requiring a person to show ID to an leo when asked. In this case I would definately consult with a knowledgable lawyer.

  7. #6
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    I'm not sure why anyone would have issue with presenting ID to a LEO that asked. Far beyond your understanding of current activity that you, not an LEO, have no idea about current criminal conditions in your area. (Unless you keep a scanner which I always have thought is a bit freaky anyway) A simple request by a LEO to me is not intrusive upon my 4th Amendment Rights. IMHO
    The OP states that the individual has been doing this for years, yet no mention how long the SO has been coming to the local coffee shop. The story line gives a bias to the nice guy coming to the shop for years and all of a sudden this big bad SO, wild with POWER, is coming to assault you by asking for ID. While I agree in principal that the LEO really didn't have the right. Why escalate the situation? Does the LEO and any P.C. or not. What was his motivation to initiate contact?
    I do agree as stated above that on face value, this really isn't a good stop/question. BUT most LEO's usually won't initiate contact unless they feel something amiss or justified (PC). As I've heard a few times over the years, YOU may beat us in court, but you're not gonna beat the ride to jail. A cool, level head is what should prevail while we OC/CC, not belligerence.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  8. #7

    2nd Amendment Right

    HI
    Everyone in this country has a 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. When it is a right it should not be questioned. A holstered gun is not a threat. A holstered gun should not be questioned.

    Every policing area of this country should have a citizen review board. The review board should be made up of 4 citizens and 3 police officers. A review board should review each and every case that comes in question of being legal. After this review board starts to act on these cases they will stop.

    Until we have citizen review boards the problems will continue.

    WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CONSTITUTION !
    Rich
    Beware of your surroundings

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rlkraatz View Post
    Every policing area of this country should have a citizen review board. The review board should be made up of 4 citizens and 3 police officers. A review board should review each and every case that comes in question of being legal. After this review board starts to act on these cases they will stop.

    Until we have citizen review boards the problems will continue.
    Sounds like something I have been saying all along.

  10. #9
    Link? I haven't heard this and if it's true then it's not normal Pierce County procedure. A link to the 'rest of the story' would help.

  11. #10

    Cool

    [QUOTE=mappow;185273]I'm not sure why anyone would have issue with presenting ID to a LEO that asked.

    Mappow: I agree with you for the most part. My biggest objection is to how the situation is handled from the get-go. If the LEO approaches as a storm trooper, he will immediately raise the ire of the carrier. I feel that the attitude displayed initially will dictate how the situation develops. I don't mind showing my ID when I am carrying but do not enjoy being treated like a criminal. I will show the same respect to the LEO that he expects from me. (But, by the same token, I will not show my rear end and have to take that ride in the back of a cruiser.) Doesn't cost anything to be cordial and makes for a pleasant day.

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