Asked to leave Kohl's for OC. - Page 4
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Thread: Asked to leave Kohl's for OC.

  1. #31
    Colorado State Fire arm Laws:
    CRS 18-12-201 thru 216 & CRS 29-11.7-101 thru 104 & CRS 18-12-101
    Thru 111 & CRS 33-14-117 & CRS 33-6-125
    State Deadly Force Laws: 18-1-701 thru 18-1-710

    **********
    (C.R.S 18-12-214.4) Public owned business (government)

    (C.R.S. 18-12-214.5) Privately owned business (stores)

    (29-11.7-104.) Regulation - Carrying - Posting.

    (18-1-701 through 710)
    Deadly Force Laws (it might not say what you think it says)

  2.   
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Some posters on this thread have confused BUSINESS property with PRIVATE property......... My Constitutional Rights do not magically vanish or end when I step onto property that has invited the PUBLIC onto it....... Hint: Neither do yours.......
    First, you'd have to show that there is a second amendment right to carry a weapon on public property.

    Then you's have to show that the private premises are the functional equivalent of public property for purposes of the second amendment.

    You'll never get past the first requirement, so the second requirement will never be at issue.

  4. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Eastern Colorado
    Posts
    269
    Here is the letter I sent.

    To whom it may concern,

    I am writing about an experience I had while shopping at the Aurora East location on March 15, 2011. I was at this store with my two children and my mother to exchange a couple of on-line purchases. The customer service we received while exchanging the items was terrific.

    What was not terrific is that I was asked to leave the store because I was openly carrying a firearm in a legal and safe manner. In the state of Colorado it is legal to carry a firearm in plain view.

    After standing in the customer service line for about 10 minutes my family and I then walked through the store to locate the items for our exchange. This took another 10 minutes at least. We then returned to the customer service line to complete our exchange. While standing in line I was approached by a gentleman who introduced himself as Brian Akonom. He stated he was the head of the loss prevention department. He asked me if I was in law enforcement. When I informed him that I was not he asked why I was carrying. I replied for the protection of myself and my family. He then stated that the carry of firearms, except for law enforcement, was not allowed in Kohl's and asked me to leave. I immediately complied and left the store. I placed my firearm in my vehicle and returned to the store to further speak with Brian. He informed me that the rule regarding the carry of firearms is a corporate policy and not a store policy. I was also led to believe that concealed carry was allowed by default since there is no way to regulate that method of carry. Also that had I been a law enforcement officer, even if not on duty, I would have been allowed to carry.

    In no way am I complaining about my interaction with Brian. He was very polite and professional while answering my questions.

    My main question is this. Does Kohl's prohibit the legal and safe carry of firearms in their stores? If so, I can no longer give any Kohl's store my business. Nor will I continue to shop on-line.

    If it is Kohl's policy to abide by local and state laws regarding the carry of firearms then please inform the Aurora East location of the proper policy.

    Thank you for your time in this matter.

    Sincerely,
    Beau
    303-xxx-xxxx
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

  5. Well said, keep us posted on their response please.

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Elkhorn, Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Some posters on this thread have confused BUSINESS property with PRIVATE property......... My Constitutional Rights do not magically vanish or end when I step onto property that has invited the PUBLIC onto it....... Hint: Neither do yours.......
    Yes they do. I cannot picket without permission on private property. I can only show up when they invite me (the store is open). I can't yell anything I want inside their store. They can refuse service to me for any reason (as long as it isn't a 'protected class') and ask me to leave. If I refuse, they can call the cops and have me forcibly removed.

    I have no idea how people get the idea that just because a privately owned business (not owned by the government) doesn't have private property rights.

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    OHIO
    Posts
    2,109
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Yes they do. I cannot picket without permission on private property. I can only show up when they invite me (the store is open). I can't yell anything I want inside their store. They can refuse service to me for any reason (as long as it isn't a 'protected class') and ask me to leave. If I refuse, they can call the cops and have me forcibly removed.

    I have no idea how people get the idea that just because a privately owned business (not owned by the government) doesn't have private property rights.
    I have no idea how you can be so confused......

    Picketing? please find an actual example that would make sense and apply to the subject we are discussing......

    You are only allowed there when they are open???? What about outside their door on the sidewalk? The parking lot?

    Yelling? Fine, please show me where in the constitution that YELLING is protected.... Speech is protected, yes.... But NOT ABUSIVE/DISRUPTIVE actions.... Again, you need to think things through a little more before you post something....

    Refusing Service to anyone... Why yes, they can do that.... Service means allowing me to purchase something, right? Where does that translate into not allowed to be there? Can they say no Europeans (regardless of skin color) allowed?

    If you go back and actually read what I wrote instead of going off and making a fool of yourself... maybe you will see I NEVER said you couldn't be asked to leave.......... or that you didnt have to leave..........


    If you INVITE the PUBLIC..... You have to ACCEPT the PUBLIC.......... Otherwise you have a PRIVATE CLUB, which may have any rules they want.... and the ONLY ones allowed in are the ones that AGREE to your rules BEFORE entering...

    My Rights that I was born with are permanent, and non-removable...... it does not matter where I am standing........ However, I do not have the right to trespass onto PRIVATE property, that would be infringing on anothers rights..... But BUSINESS property is different from Private property by virtue of them INVITING the public..... My having an INANIMATE object in my possession in NO WAY infringes on a Business owners rights, as long as I am not waving it around threatening people with it, it is HARMLESS and none of their #[email protected] concern whatsoever...

  8. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Elkhorn, Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    I have no idea how you can be so confused......

    Picketing? please use your brain to find an actual example that would make sense and apply to the subject we are discussing......

    You are only allowed there when they are open???? What about outside their door on the sidewalk? The parking lot?

    Yelling? Fine, please show me where in the constitution that YELLING is protected.... Speech is protected, yes.... But NOT ABUSIVE/DISRUPTIVE actions.... Again, you need to think things through a little more before you post something....

    Refusing Service to anyone... Why yes, they can do that.... Service means allowing me to purchase something, right? Where does that translate into not allowed to be there? Can they say no Europeans (regardless of skin color) allowed?

    If you go back and actually read what I wrote instead of going off and making a fool of yourself... maybe you will see I NEVER said you couldn't be asked to leave.......... or that you didnt have to leave..........


    If you INVITE the PUBLIC..... You have to ACCEPT the PUBLIC.......... Otherwise you have a PRIVATE CLUB, which may have any rules they want.... and the ONLY ones allowed in are the ones that AGREE to your rules BEFORE entering...

    My Rights that I was born with are permanent, and non-removable...... it does not matter where I am standing........ However, I do not have the right to trespass onto PRIVATE property, that would be infringing on anothers rights..... But BUSINESS property is different from Private property by virtue of them INVITING the public.....
    Wow! Name calling! Good job!!!!

    As a business owner, yes I own a business, I would like to see you come onto my property, outside my building, after I told you I don't want you there. We shall see what your 'rights' are. You have NO rights on MY private property, which includes property owned by my business. I allow you to come in and do what I allow you to do. I allow you to buy stuff from me. I can refuse service or even access to you because your have no hair, or your hair is red. Is this a smart business decision? Not really but it is within my rights. If you don't like it, you have the right to stand off of my property with a sign saying I'm an *******. You can post on the internet, you can do whatever the heck you want as long as you stay off my property.

    There are a few businesses that are regulated and therefore can't 'discriminate'. If I am a hotel or rent houses or apartments I can't refuse service to you in violation of the fair housing act.

    You have rights when dealing with the government. With an individual or other non-governmental entity, you have privileges, which can be revoked.

  9. #38
    handgonnetoter Guest
    That sucks! I'd like to know what exactly did Kohls accomplish by having a policy like this. I don't even think these places actually think about what they will be accomplishing by such stupid rules.

  10. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    OHIO
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    2,109
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Wow! Name calling! Good job!!!!

    As a business owner, yes I own a business, I would like to see you come onto my property, outside my building, after I told you I don't want you there. We shall see what your 'rights' are. You have NO rights on MY private property, which includes property owned by my business. I allow you to come in and do what I allow you to do. I allow you to buy stuff from me. I can refuse service or even access to you because your have no hair, or your hair is red. Is this a smart business decision? Not really but it is within my rights. If you don't like it, you have the right to stand off of my property with a sign saying I'm an *******. You can post on the internet, you can do whatever the heck you want as long as you stay off my property.

    There are a few businesses that are regulated and therefore can't 'discriminate'. If I am a hotel or rent houses or apartments I can't refuse service to you in violation of the fair housing act.

    You have rights when dealing with the government. With an individual or other non-governmental entity, you have privileges, which can be revoked.

    Wow, just wow.... WHERE DID I CALL YOU NAMES????? You need to go back to school and learn how to read if you think I called you names!!!

    I already refuted and explained the trespassing part, but here you are pointing out your ignorance again.... Arguing about something that WAS NOT SAID to prove a point that was not made....(you should look that up (ignorant) before you accuse me of calling you a name and further show your ignorance)

  11. #40
    Join Date
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    Location
    Elkhorn, Wisconsin, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Wow, just wow.... WHERE DID I CALL YOU NAMES????? You need to go back to school and learn how to read if you think I called you names!!!

    I already refuted and explained the trespassing part, but here you are pointing out your ignorance again.... Arguing about something that WAS NOT SAID to prove a point that was not made....(you should look that up (ignorant) before you accuse me of calling you a name and further show your ignorance)
    Believe what you want. I will say this just one more time.

    There is no such thing as 'public private property'. There is public property (owned by a governmental entity) and private property (owned by an individual or a non governmental company). You have NO rights on private property. You may be allowed access but it is because the owner wants you there, not because you have a right.

    As for your statement about trespassing, you have a short memory.

    You said:
    However, I do not have the right to trespass onto PRIVATE property, that would be infringing on anothers rights..... But BUSINESS property is different from Private property by virtue of them INVITING the public
    The invite can have restrictions. I can invite you into my house and say 'you can't wear a red shirt'. I can also post a sign on my business door saying 'no red shirts'. If you come into either place with a red shirt, I can demand you leave and if you don't, take further action, depending on local law.

    Same with a firearm.

    Please show me any court case or law that 'forces' me to let you onto any business property with a red shirt on or a firearm.

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