Jacksonville, AL Unlawfull Arrest For Open Carry - Page 3
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Thread: Jacksonville, AL Unlawfull Arrest For Open Carry

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    ARIZONA-a short distance from the sun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    So I say make it cost the city enough money to were the city officials will correct or fire the police chief, prosecutor and the magistrate for costing the city money that had to come from somewhere to cover their dumb ass mistake.
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    State of Confusion
    Quote Originally Posted by Shortbuseinstein View Post
    BC1: I have CC for around 14 years and OC for 1 1/2 years with out any problems. Well except this one.... I am being charged with Carrying a Pistol On Property Not My Own. It would seem that if I let this go that they can charge anyone OC or CC. Heck they can charge someone for having it in their car and driving on to private property. I don't own the local gun range and I discharge weapons there.
    NavyLT: Well said!
    Oldgrunt and Doc: I have a good attorney in fact he is not my first one on this case. My other attny seemed like a good guy but suggested I take a plea and do 6 months probation. I have also talked with AlRanger he has been a big help.
    If you take the probation will it affect your gun ownership? Have you had an opinion from another attorney? Fighting might be more expensive but taking a guilty pleas is admitting you did something wrong as you generally must verbally allocute your guilt before the court. If you are within your rights then fight if you can. Don't let the state have a precedent case to show what you did was wrong. That may be the best present you can give to others who OC.

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    If you can CCW why not just do that instead? There's always posts on the boards about OC confrontations. Some people just wig-out when they see a gun.
    Because you can, plain and simple. Why should you come up with an excuse to do something your legally allowed to do? "Hiding" and obeying "laws" that the a-hole cop makes up on the spot further encourages that type of activity. NY,NJ,MA & CA are proof of that. I'm glad everyday that at least for now I live in a free state. It's people following the type of advise you just gave that did all the damage to the commie states whether you want to admit it or not. I should know I'm from one.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swinokur View Post
    Yes, that's right. Just move to the back of the bus like they tell you to. Get away from that lunch counter. Don't drink at that water fountain. Don't cause a commotion. They're just doing their job.
    Sums it up quite nicely, but because we are talking about Alabama here, I can expect a few quotes like this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    You are so full of crap, you eyes must have turned brown.

    I believe both those incidents happened in MISSISSIPPI, not Alabama. (That's the state that look like Alabama but the little footie thing on the bottom is on the other side.)
    And perhaps an off topic comment like this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by SEMPERFIDELUS8403 View Post
    "Teach a yankee how to drive, put um on I95 north" "Welcome to Dixie.... now leave" lol some folks need to stay in cali, maybe itll fall into the ocean

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    I wasn't aware of this thread until I did a search on the Jason Tulley case just trying to figure out what became of it, and this thread showed up in the search. There is news, and it's not good. The Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed Mr. Tulley's conviction with some of the most obvious anti-gun, unconstitutional, legal pretzel logic ever presented as "legal rationale." Here is the "unpublished memorandum" containing the ruling if anybody is interested, but below are two good analyses from two different state-specific forums. First, from BamaCarry.org:

    Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals

    Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals Upholds Conviction of Jason Tulley

    In an unpublished memorandum, the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals on Friday, February 28, 2014 upheld the conviction of BamaCarry member Jason Dean Tulley. Tulley held a valid pistol permit and carried his holstered pistol openly on his side in his own defense as he conducted business in Jacksonville, Alabama. He was confronted as he entered the building by an off-duty police officer who also carried a holstered pistol openly on his side as he performed his moonlighting job as a security guard. Tulley offered to leave and the off-duty officer/security guard ordered Tulley to put the weapon in his vehicle or go to jail. Tulley briefly stated that his order was unconstitutional, but then complied with the order.

    Tulley was emailed a warrant for his arrest 4 days later and was charged with violating 13A-11-52. The charges were later changed to a City of Jacksonville Ordinance No. O-514-0, which adopts § 13A-11-52, Ala. Code 1975. The local ordinance forbids a person from carrying a pistol “about his person on premises not his own or under his control”, and defines a violation of the local ordinance as an offense against the City of Jacksonville. The statute contains an exception for a “police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office”. The off duty officer/moonlighting security guard was not charged.

    Tulley was convicted in the Jacksonville Municipal Court, where he was ordered to pay a $50 fine and $200 in costs. Tulley appealed to the Calhoun County Circuit Court and filed two motions to dismiss the charge against him; the circuit court denied both. Following a trial without a jury, Tulley was convicted and sentenced to 30 days imprisonment and ordered to pay court costs and a $200 fine. The circuit court suspended Tulley’s 30-day sentence and placed him on six months’ probation. Tulley then appealed to the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals.

    After nearly a year of deliberation, the Court released its “unpublished memorandum”. The Court determined that the penalty defined by the local ordinance of the City of Jacksonville was enough to sustain the validity of the statute, although Section 104 of the Constitution of Alabama 1901 prohibits local ordinances “fixing the punishment of crime”. 11-45-1.1 Subject Matter of handguns reserved to State Legislature also prevents the city from adding a penalty. Even Governor Patterson’s interpretation of the law as Attorney General was found by the Court to be wrong, yet the Court determined through its bizarre line of reasoning that the statute on which the ordinance was based was not unconstitutionally void for vagueness.

    The exceptionally long memorandum amounts to “no opinion” under the Alabama Rules of Appellate Procedure, and has “no precedential value” even though it has the effect of affirming Tulley’s conviction. However, it sets precedence for cities to enact their own laws. This is very dangerous for gun owners! You could potentially become a criminal by simply crossing into a different city.

    Mr. Tulley and his family relied on all the government officials involved in his case to support the clear language of our Declaration of Rights, Article I, Constitution of Alabama 1901 as each of them swore before God to do in taking their constitutional oaths of office. Tulley believes they failed to do that when they violated his right to bear arms for defense of himself.

    Mr. Tulley and his family along with his fellow members of BamaCarry support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and the Constitution of Alabama 1901 and continue to rely on our on it as the supreme law of our nation and our state. We urge you to support their endeavors to submit the case to the Alabama Supreme Court.

    A fund has been set up to support Mr. Tulley’s very expensive Alabama Supreme Court challenge. For more information please visit Bamacarry.org or Facebook: BamaCarry

    [A link to donate to Jason's Defense Fund can be found at the BamaCarry.org link in the first paragraph of this post.]

    BamaCarry (a non-profit corporation) exists to educate and inform Alabama Citizens concerning their rights protected by the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Alabama. BamaCarry centers on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. We strive to restore, protect and maintain these Rights, given us by our Creator and protected by our Constitution, by educational programs and legal means if necessary, We proudly defend the Constitutional Rights of Alabama Citizens to carry a weapon in defense of Self and State.

    Contact Information:
    Redacted - Go to link above to get Contact Info.

    And next is from AlabamaOpenCarry.com and a post from one of the better and most prolific analysts on the site (amongst several very good ones I should add), Zmaster:

    From reading the MEMORANDUM, it appears that the Construction of Declaration of Rights in the Constitution of Alabama has been ignored once again by the courts.

    According to the Constitution of Alabama, we have the Right to bear arms. Tulley was exercising that right. A Right of the People is by definition Lawful as the People have claimed that to be so. In the Construction of Declaration of Rights in the Constitution of Alabama, these Rights have been excepted out of the general powers of government. What that should mean is that a Right is Not Legal nor is a Right Illegal - as these are terms of government.

    In 1838 the Alabama Legislature violated the Construction of Declaration of Rights in the Constitution of Alabama by legislating concealed carry of a weapon for any purpose to be Illegal and the courts did so again in State v. Reid. The City of Jacksonville continues this violation against the Peoples' Rights. This must stop! Carry for Defensive use is a Lawful Right of the People.

    "... and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate."

    It is my opinion that the only charge which might have been brought is Criminal Trespass. Even that charge would have been weak. Why? Statute law provides for this charge - but only when the individual has had this "personally communicated to him by the owner of such premises or other authorized person." I do not believe that the security guard / police officer has the power to effect this on his own.

    So there ya go, even the state that I talk up all the time as one of the best 2A rights states in the nation has cops, prosecutors and courts that are willing to flout the law in order to assert their control over our rights. No state is safe. The best thing Jason has going for him now is that Chief Justice Roy Moore is back in his leadership role at the State Supreme Court, where this case is destined to next. The BamaCarry link at the top of the post has a way to contribute to his Defense Fund if anyone is interested.

    Prayers up for Jason Tulley to have the strength to continue this fight and ultimately, kick Bama's unjustice system square in the ass.

    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #27

    Sent from my SCH-R740C using USA Carry mobile app

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