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Thread: opinions on open carry

  1. #91
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    Wow! Why can't we keep it civil? We are, after all, on the same side, aren't we?
    Let's hear it for Gun Free Zones... Public places where the criminal has a monopoly
    on self defense. - Gary Nelson 2012

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by WB9IIE View Post
    Wow! Why can't we keep it civil? We are, after all, on the same side, aren't we?
    Being civil with antis is what has gotten us here in the first place.......

    Those spreading rumors and lies as fact will be pointed out/exposed for what/who they are.

    Someone without much knowledge/experience could be reading this type pf forum... and may take bad advice if it isnt pointed out and dealt with....That bad advice (in some cases/subject, not necessarily this particular thread) could actually cost them their life if they take it as the truth.....


    Those that keep repeating that which has been proven false are worse than anti-gunners in my book. At least anti-gunners say they hate guns..... some on here have no clue what Constitutional Rights really are, not to mention how life actually works in the real world, all they ever do is repeat what their teachers/instructors told them as the gospel and refuse to accept anything else.......

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Ahhhh, the "open carrier being targeted" falsehood again.....

    Neat little scenario that has been continuously spewed by those like you who dont especially like open carry...... BUT NEVER BACKED UP WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR "STORIES" of "how it COULD happen", and never, ever any proof that it actually happens..........

    If you (you being those who spout this "story" all the time) did have any proof, you would be rubbing our (those who support open carry) faces in it each time we challenge you to provide it...... Frankly it is getting quite tiring to keep asking for this non-existent proof and never getting it, why dont you anti-open carry people just give it up? because we who live in reality WILL NOT LET YOU GET AWAY with spreading falsehoods and rumors without pointing it out to all how un-supported/false your theory actually is.........
    Me?, I'll stick to the real world....... and carry open whenever I want (which is almost 90% of the time) and keep from getting robbed or bothered by those who actually are looking to rob someone....
    Quite possibly you are correct in your assumptions. I don't know. Neither do you, for that matter. I'm not certain if shooting investigations get into the details of asking a perp what and why his "target list" was such and such.

    My entire statement was based on what and how I would handle the situation if I were a determined perp. Since I've never had actual experience in "Perping", except in the consideration of ambushes, setting of clever fields of fire in defence and immediate reaction drills to meeting enguagement firefights... I rely on that.

    Like I said, CYA your way. I'll CMA mine. (No sence getting all "hostile" about it. It's unbecoming.) LOL!

    Whoever lives longest.... wins!

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    According to your theories, though, the 9/11 terrorists should have attacked aircraft carriers. I wonder why they didn't? Take out the biggest threat first, right? Don't go after the unarmed victims, go after the big guns, right? Isn't that what you say will happen?

    Deterrence isn't going to work every time. But if it works just once, for me and my family, it's worth it. And the odds are much, much greater that a crime will be deterred by a visible show of ability to use defensive force against the odds that it will incite a crime. I'll stick with odds in my favor.
    You have a remarkable predeliction of missing the point. Not to mention a tenacity to "jump at the bait" for every "hook" offered you. With utterly predictable talking points to boot.

    Like I said in other posts..... you do it your way. I'll do it mine. (Which, if you will remember correctly, is exactly how our last "discussion" over the matter ended up.) (Which YOU should have predicted if you had considered things in "de-hyped" mode.)

    Although the "aircraft carrier" gamebit was nicely played, IMHO. Completely beside the point, but nicely played.

    GG

    P.S. As an aside.... why is it you OC adherents are so quick to jump up in defence of your chosen "methods"? A case of "the lady doth protest too much"? Guilt trip? Realization that not all self defence proponents see things your way? Anyway, comes across as altogether too "touchy" to suit me. I'm not generally a confrontationalist, more of a to each his/her own. Just sayin'.
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by WB9IIE View Post
    Wow! Why can't we keep it civil? We are, after all, on the same side, aren't we?
    For the most part, most of us do. As for "the same side"..... given the disparity in the "things I would do in such and such a situation" posts we get in here.... I sometimes wonder.

    But, like all discussions, sometimes some folks get so wrapped up in THEIR personal "best answer" to a question, they will not even contemplate examination of alternate POVs. Rather like the discussions of "Best..." (Gun, carry position, safety features, target acquisition techniques, holster, ammo....... well.... YOU name it.) For as many posters, there will be nearly as many differing opinions. Which is exactly why we post, to see what other folks have to say on the matter, for consideration..... NOT arguement for YOUR particuclar POV. (Well, at least, that is why I post.)

    So, if the fur DOES fly on occasion, don't let it trouble you. In the end we will all do exactly what our hearts, our minds, our own interests, our own comfort level tells us to do. THAT'S my idea of freedom of choice. "Conversions" to another POV in ANY forum are few and far between, therefore I do not insist on anything, I merely point out things of interest.

    If that pointing out of things sends some folks into spasms of insult, demeaning language, ad hominem nonsence..... in the world of REAL debate, you get points.

    .... and I do have to admit that sometimes I deliberately needle folks that are so closed minded to alternate POVs that their reactions (and posts) are utterly predictable. Especially if they come across to me as borderline pompus! (Nasty habit, I know. But a source of infinate entertainment, at times. Mea culpa.)

    Ruck up, move out. Don't mean nothin'! LOL!

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    P.S. As an aside.... why is it you OC adherents are so quick to jump up in defence of your chosen "methods"? A case of "the lady doth protest too much"? Guilt trip? Realization that not all self defence proponents see things your way? Anyway, comes across as altogether too "touchy" to suit me. I'm not generally a confrontationalist, more of a to each his/her own. Just sayin'.
    The only thing we are quick to jump on is the presentation of unproven theories as fact. The statement, "A criminal is going to shoot you first in a robbery if you open carry" has NEVER happened in reality. It's that simple. Research and history both offer proof that the MAJORITY of criminals will not bother with a target that is known to be armed.

    I don't care if you base your choices on what-if scenarios in your head and/or unproven theories. But don't try to tell me those theories have any basis in reality, because they don't.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #97
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    So, the weather sure has been weird, huh? Heh heh....

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    But, like all discussions, sometimes some folks get so wrapped up in THEIR personal "best answer" to a question, they will not even contemplate examination of alternate POVs......GG
    I agree with your entire post. Now you know why I added a couple of names to my ignore list. I don't ignore everyone I disagree with, just a select few with whom it's pointless to offer a differing view (to say nothing of the obvious trolls who stalk these boards).
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  10. #99
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    After reading through the thread, I'm going to have to side with lcdr. Here is why:

    1. A hardened target does not have to be armored. The term hardened is in reference to your presentation. A soldier with his rifle hanging to his side, with more of a relaxed posture is less hardened than a soldier with his hand on the grip in an attentive posture.

    2. The warship references didn't make sense to me. As citizens we are not at war. The somali pirates is a better example about society. Pirates would not even consider taking a vessel that had a guard. How often do you hear about a store next to a police station being robbed?

    3. No one can provide proof that open carriers have been targeted. I do not believe police are in the oc group because they have presented themselves differently with the uniform and badge.

    4. Where are these determined criminals? How long has it been since a professional team robbed a bank for large sums in the United States? Seems the only stories I have read deal with a single person going for a single register. I think the big bank robbery scenario is to close to hollywood. My view of a determined bad guy is one who does not plan to come out alive...in which case, it depends on the place being attacked, and it's luck whether or not your are the first victim.

    4. We train a lot to practice staying aware during high adrenaline situations. The simple criminal will have tunnel vision with the adrenaline rush they are having. Unless you were the first victim, they most likely wont see an open carrier 10 feet outside their determined route. (this one is my opinion)

    5. A lot of you who believe oc will make you a target base that off of what you would do if you were a bad guy. Problem is, the average bad guy is not very smart. We may be opinionated here, but most of us show some intelligence in our arguments.

    6. I have not found anything about ccw'rs surprising a bad guy. I have read about ccw'rs deterring an attack just by presenting their weapon. I have read about people stopping a crime by surprising the criminal from behind, in which case, form of carry didn't matter.

    7. The common criminal is looking for the easy target. Even the smallest amount of struggling or fighting back can deter a bad guy. They are counting on their victim to give up or freeze. They dont look for strong able bodies that can defend themselves. Deterrence is a great reason to oc.

    The only reason I dont like oc is because I feel uncomfortable around the general public. Sound like those who do oc dont have issues. I feel, the sponge society is soaking up all the left wing media garbage anti gun crap....out of sight out of mind works for me. Deterrence is great, but situational awareness is more important in my mind.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Deterrence is great, but situational awareness is more important in my mind.
    I absolutely agree. Most violent crime is successful because the criminal already executed their "element of surprise" and gained the upper hand from the very beginning of the attack.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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