Positive encounter with police at bank today - Page 2
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Thread: Positive encounter with police at bank today

  1. Axeanda45,

    There's a couple of things you must realize here. First, in his posting about Terry v. Ohio, amsgator left out two key words.

    Quote Originally Posted by amsgator View Post
    You are missing one critical portion of the Terry v. Ohio ruling in that analysis. Terry v. Ohio allows an officer to conduct a "Terry stop/frisk" when there is reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person may be armed.
    The two words that amsgator left out are "and dangerous" as in "armed and dangerous".

    Now, in Florida, that really doesn't change anything because in Florida a person who is armed is automatically considered dangerous. In 1987-88 the Police Chiefs Association of Florida opposed licensed concealed carry in Florida.

    TCHA: CHL History

    Both the PCA and the Florida Sheriff's Association opposed open carry this year. Apparently the police in Florida would rather people hid their firearms from them, rather than knowing who is armed.

    The Glass House of Florida Law Enforcement : Liberty Underground

    They are so afraid at the sight of a firearm in Florida that it was like pulling teeth just to make it not a crime to accidentally display a hint of a firearm in Florida. Up until this year, a person who simply bent over to pick something up and accidentally let the handgrip of his firearm peek out from under his shirt could legally be pounced upon by Florida law enforcement like he was Jesse James.

    In Florida you have to remember that:
    Quote Originally Posted by amsgator View Post
    If someone walks by a cop with a gun and decides to rob the bank, all hell will break loose because the cop didn't stop the guy to investigate and the public will have his job.
    is a true statement because, in Florida, it is pretty much illegal to walk by a cop with a visible gun, even though it would be perfectly legal to do so in 43 states, and in most of those states you would get a nod of approval from the officer for doing so (carrying the firearm...not robbing a bank!)

    And that's what amsgator failed to take into account. Most of the rest of the United States do not have the oppressive firearms carry laws that Florida does. In most of the rest of the United States the sight of a handgun carried in a holster does not cause the legislature, police and a major portion of the general populace to suffer a sudden and acute case of loss of bladder control.

    That being the case, in most of the United States, if a police officer were to detain an individual for no other reason than they were carrying a visible firearm, whether or not a permit was required to carry that firearm, the police officer would be committing a crime and would be violating the 4th Amendment rights of the citizen, because absent any other indications the police officer would have no reasonable and articulable suspicion that a crime was being committed. Florida, unfortunately, is not like most of the rest of the United States.

    The challenge for us in the rest of the United States is that we need to be careful to ensure that the idea that carrying a visible firearm is somehow suspicious remains confined to state like Florida, Texas, Oklahoma and Illinois.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    amsgator.... Is it ok in your state for a cop to stop you for breaking NO TRAFFIC LAWS (while driving a vehicle) just to see if you have a drivers license?
    Just about. If the registered owner's DL is suspended it's PC to stop the vehicle.
    NRA and USCCA Certified Instructor - FL CCW/CWP Classes
    https://www.TriggerPressers.com

  4. #13
    As long as the "ripe" retiring citizens of this great country keep flocking from y'alls state(s) to Florida I don't think y'all will have an issue with the mindset leaving here and moving there.
    NRA and USCCA Certified Instructor - FL CCW/CWP Classes
    https://www.TriggerPressers.com

  5. Quote Originally Posted by amsgator View Post
    As long as the "ripe" retiring citizens of this great country keep flocking from y'alls state(s) to Florida I don't think y'all will have an issue with the mindset leaving here and moving there.
    I hope I never get too old and/or senile to roll over and hand my rights to the government.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. Why the fuss?

    I fail to understand the fear of showing ID or permit when asked by legitimate authority. We are not as yet in an adversarial relationship with Law Enforcement in this country, are we? Unless you are part of the criminal element, that is...

    Unless you are a cop, you probably won't know how many times the store or bank where you are shopping has been robbed in the last month, or the fact that somebody just hit a convenience store two blocks away and drove away in a car that looks just like yours. That cop's main concern is to go home at the end of his shift. He's putting his life on the line to keep YOU safe. Give him a break and make his life easier. Smile. Show him the ID, even if it isn't required by law. Put his mind at ease. Next time he sees you, he'll know you're one of the good guys.

    If you get belligerent and whine about your rights being violated, you give all of us who carry a bad name, you create resentment, and you drive a wedge between all law abiding citizens who carry to protect our families and the cops who protect us all professionally.

  7. #16
    How bout we close this by agreeing that it's never a good idea to argue with a LEO, regardless of the issue. ;)
    We will not falter. We will not surrender. We will prevail.

    NRA Benefactor Member

  8. Quote Originally Posted by ccwaz View Post
    I fail to understand the fear of showing ID or permit when asked by legitimate authority. We are not as yet in an adversarial relationship with Law Enforcement in this country, are we? Unless you are part of the criminal element, that is...

    Unless you are a cop, you probably won't know how many times the store or bank where you are shopping has been robbed in the last month, or the fact that somebody just hit a convenience store two blocks away and drove away in a car that looks just like yours. That cop's main concern is to go home at the end of his shift. He's putting his life on the line to keep YOU safe. Give him a break and make his life easier. Smile. Show him the ID, even if it isn't required by law. Put his mind at ease. Next time he sees you, he'll know you're one of the good guys.
    Garbage collectors, fishermen and farmers die on the job more frequently than cops do. So go ahead and show your ID and CPL to them because they just want to go home at the end of the day. They put their life on the line to keep us safe and healthy by taking away our garbage and providing us with food and other products. I fail to see how showing my CPL and ID to a police officer is going to help them go home at the day.

    I, myself, would like to go home at the end of the day, unmolested by police "investigating" perfectly legal behavior. How hard is it for a police officer to respond to a 911 MWAG call, observe a person doing nothing other than shopping or eating dinner, and sign off the call, "Subject observed, no suspicious behavior noted"? To some of us our 4th Amendment rights are just as important, if not more important, than our 2nd Amendment rights are. If you are going to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights by carrying a firearm for protection from criminals, than why not exercise your 4th Amendment rights as well for protection from the government and government officials/employees?

    The reason it is a big deal is because if everyone allows police to overstep their bounds of authority, then the police will only continue to do so, overstepping their bounds of authority one more step further each time. We, as citizens, are expected to follow the law...why is it such a "crime" to expect that police officers follow the bounds set forth in law as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccwaz View Post
    If you get belligerent and whine about your rights being violated, you give all of us who carry a bad name, you create resentment, and you drive a wedge between all law abiding citizens who carry to protect our families and the cops who protect us all professionally.
    I absolutely agree with you. That's why I won't get belligerent and whine about my rights being violated. What I will do is NOT waive my rights just because a person with a uniform and a badge asks me to waive my rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by unevrno
    How bout we close this by agreeing that it's never a good idea to argue with a LEO, regardless of the issue. ;)
    I agree with that as well. I won't argue with the LEO. I will ask if I am being detained or not. If I am not being detained, under most circumstances I will simply choose to end the voluntary encounter. I have no desire to discuss my identity or any permits I might or might not have with a perfect stranger just because they are wearing a uniform and a badge. After I ascertain from the officer directly and clearly that I am being detained, then I will comply with the officer's demands, and then require that officer to explain to a judge in court what his/her justification was for detaining me.

    To me, that's just common sense.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Axeanda45,

    There's a couple of things you must realize here. First, in his posting about Terry v. Ohio, amsgator left out two key words.



    The two words that amsgator left out are "and dangerous" as in "armed and dangerous".

    Now, in Florida, that really doesn't change anything because in Florida a person who is armed is automatically considered dangerous. In 1987-88 the Police Chiefs Association of Florida opposed licensed concealed carry in Florida.

    TCHA: CHL History

    Both the PCA and the Florida Sheriff's Association opposed open carry this year. Apparently the police in Florida would rather people hid their firearms from them, rather than knowing who is armed.

    The Glass House of Florida Law Enforcement : Liberty Underground

    They are so afraid at the sight of a firearm in Florida that it was like pulling teeth just to make it not a crime to accidentally display a hint of a firearm in Florida. Up until this year, a person who simply bent over to pick something up and accidentally let the handgrip of his firearm peek out from under his shirt could legally be pounced upon by Florida law enforcement like he was Jesse James.

    In Florida you have to remember that:

    is a true statement because, in Florida, it is pretty much illegal to walk by a cop with a visible gun, even though it would be perfectly legal to do so in 43 states, and in most of those states you would get a nod of approval from the officer for doing so (carrying the firearm...not robbing a bank!)

    And that's what amsgator failed to take into account. Most of the rest of the United States do not have the oppressive firearms carry laws that Florida does. In most of the rest of the United States the sight of a handgun carried in a holster does not cause the legislature, police and a major portion of the general populace to suffer a sudden and acute case of loss of bladder control.

    That being the case, in most of the United States, if a police officer were to detain an individual for no other reason than they were carrying a visible firearm, whether or not a permit was required to carry that firearm, the police officer would be committing a crime and would be violating the 4th Amendment rights of the citizen, because absent any other indications the police officer would have no reasonable and articulable suspicion that a crime was being committed. Florida, unfortunately, is not like most of the rest of the United States.

    The challenge for us in the rest of the United States is that we need to be careful to ensure that the idea that carrying a visible firearm is somehow suspicious remains confined to state like Florida, Texas, Oklahoma and Illinois.
    I can add Connecticut and Mass to the list of states with oppressive firearms laws.

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Garbage collectors, fishermen and farmers die on the job more frequently than cops do.
    Yea, and more cops get killed than military troops (number serving/number killed). So using this logic I guess it's about time to have a movement to stop supporting our troops and begin supporting our garbage men, fishermen, and farmers. After all, none of the troops EVER break any laws or commit war crimes.
    NRA and USCCA Certified Instructor - FL CCW/CWP Classes
    https://www.TriggerPressers.com

  11. not police officer

    well the rent a guard is not a police officer, just a security officer, quite a difference there! but glad you had a good encounter anyways!! just incase anyone out here had not heard , calif is now a not legal open carry, unloaded gun state, use to be alright to open carry a UN loaded pistol but as of a few weeks ago, no more!! no biggie i guess, except us loosing another right.but hey this is calif!! we don't got no rights!!! unless your a criminal, illegal mexican or gay.. but a law abiding citizen? no so much anymore!! and getting worse all the time!!
    1 ~ MAN ARMY....

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