10 reasons for open carry - Page 11
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Thread: 10 reasons for open carry

  1. #101
    Join Date
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    What is this thread? Is it OC, or the OC bash tread?

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  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Your response should of been just "no".

    There is no evidence you will be targeted first, but there has been multiple examples of OC in a store where a crime took place, and they weren't the first to get shot. One example included a full size 1911.

    Draw time. You are saying having to move the concealment piece of clothing to get to your weapon is faster than just getting to your weapon? That OC might be as fast? Why do competition shooters OC then? I thought they were about being fast?

    my cc is comfortable as well, but my open carry is more comfortable. This is a personal preference, and is the only legitimate argument against OC.

    "Open carry does not deter crime." Are you just trolling now? Any self defense instructor, book, video, will tell you just being aware of your surroundings can deter a crime. Criminals do profile their victims. Showing them you are not only going to fight back, but you have the advantage sure is a deterrent. We have posted multiple examples of deterrence. Back up your claims.

    If I "need" to. as in a store owner says, "hey man, I don't mind you carrying, but if you don't conceal it on my property, you will have to leave". I don't see that destroying any argument.

    I never said it creates a gun free zone. Knowing that's how you see open carry sheds light on the mentality of anti OC people. I do care about educating the public and I do make time for it. You guys that don't have the time should be grateful there are people who do.

    I am saying CC draw time may even be faster than OC draw time. Everyone has a different draw time so your argument cannot be made. Draw time is subjective. Competition shooters do what works for them.
    My CC is more comfortable than my OC. Its subjective, so stop trying to use it in any argument.
    Hate to break it to you but a CC person is just as aware of their surrounding as an OC person is. If you think open carry deters crime, you're saying that criminals notice a person has a gun, and decide not to commit a crime, thus creating a crime free zone wherever you walk, and I'm afraid life just isn't that simple. Not every criminal with a strong intent to break the law will be scared off by the gun on your hip, assuming they even walked around and "profiled" everyone in the area to see who would be "willing to fight back".
    Show me a time when a bank robber walks into a bank with his gun loaded and mask on, and then proceeds to walk around the bank looking at and profiling everyone in the bank to decide who would be a threat to them, then possibly seeing an open carrier, he decides to calmly walk out of the bank and go home. It doesn't happen.

    Robbery suspect shot, killed by customer - WVVA TV Bluefield Beckley WV News, Weather and Sports

    In this situation, the bank robber walked right into the bank with a loaded shotgun. His intent was strong enough that an open carrier in the bank wouldn't have caused him to be deterred. He was ready to blast whoever tried to deter him or stop him. A concealed carrier is the one who stopped the bank robber in this case.

    In regards to needing to conceal, if you really thought open carry was that much more of a tactical advantage, you would walk out of the store that wouldn't let you defend yourself how you see best.
    Last edited by Deserteagle; 08-29-2011 at 09:37 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Not every criminal with a strong intent to break the law will be scared off by the gun on your hip, assuming they even walked around and "profiled" everyone in the area to see who would be "willing to fight back".
    Yet, open carry WILL deter the MAJORITY of criminals. Factual research and history proves that. One example is:
    Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com

    For research and statistics look at page 12 of http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...6.0-screen.pdf

    Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they
    knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided
    committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
    If the majority of criminals won't mess with me because they know I have a gun and can kill them, why would I not take advantage of that?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    ...If the majority of criminals won't mess with me because they know I have a gun and can kill them, why would I not take advantage of that?
    [impersonating Arnold Horshack] Ooh! Ooh, Ooh! I know, Mr. Kotter!! It's so you can shoot them, go through an expensive trial (civil and/or criminal since the perp's relatives will probably sue you for wrongful death), and have nightmares for the rest of your life. [/impersonating Arnold Horshack]

    Even 32 years after the fact, the nightmares still happen.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  6. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Yet, open carry WILL deter the MAJORITY of criminals. Factual research and history proves that. One example is:
    Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com
    That story is an excellent example of when criminals decide to case a place a few minutes before they decide to rob it. Some criminals case the store a few minutes before, and some don't. Those that don't like in the example I posted, will not be deterred by your holstered pistol.

  7. #106
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle:224272
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Your response should of been just "no".

    There is no evidence you will be targeted first, but there has been multiple examples of OC in a store where a crime took place, and they weren't the first to get shot. One example included a full size 1911.

    Draw time. You are saying having to move the concealment piece of clothing to get to your weapon is faster than just getting to your weapon? That OC might be as fast? Why do competition shooters OC then? I thought they were about being fast?

    my cc is comfortable as well, but my open carry is more comfortable. This is a personal preference, and is the only legitimate argument against OC.

    "Open carry does not deter crime." Are you just trolling now? Any self defense instructor, book, video, will tell you just being aware of your surroundings can deter a crime. Criminals do profile their victims. Showing them you are not only going to fight back, but you have the advantage sure is a deterrent. We have posted multiple examples of deterrence. Back up your claims.

    If I "need" to. as in a store owner says, "hey man, I don't mind you carrying, but if you don't conceal it on my property, you will have to leave". I don't see that destroying any argument.

    I never said it creates a gun free zone. Knowing that's how you see open carry sheds light on the mentality of anti OC people. I do care about educating the public and I do make time for it. You guys that don't have the time should be grateful there are people who do.

    I am saying CC draw time may even be faster than OC draw time. Everyone has a different draw time so your argument cannot be made. Draw time is subjective. Competition shooters do what works for them.
    My CC is more comfortable than my OC. Its subjective, so stop trying to use it in any argument.
    Hate to break it to you but a CC person is just as aware of their surrounding as an OC person is. If you think open carry deters crime, you're saying that criminals notice a person has a gun, and decide not to commit a crime, thus creating a crime free zone wherever you walk, and I'm afraid life just isn't that simple. Not every criminal with a strong intent to break the law will be scared off by the gun on your hip, assuming they even walked around and "profiled" everyone in the area to see who would be "willing to fight back".
    Show me a time when a bank robber walks into a bank with his gun loaded and mask on, and then proceeds to walk around the bank looking at and profiling everyone in the bank to decide who would be a threat to them, then possibly seeing an open carrier, he decides to calmly walk out of the bank and go home. It doesn't happen.

    Robbery suspect shot, killed by customer - WVVA TV Bluefield Beckley WV News, Weather and Sports

    In this situation, the bank robber walked right into the bank with a loaded shotgun. His intent was strong enough that an open carrier in the bank wouldn't have caused him to be deterred. He was ready to blast whoever tried to deter him or stop him. A concealed carrier using the art of surprise is the one who stopped the bank robber in this case.

    In regards to needing to conceal, if you really thought open carry was that much more of a tactical advantage, you would walk out of the store that wouldn't let you defend yourself how you see best.
    Concealed carry can only be as fast, but not faster, between two skilled people. Period. Not subjective. How is adding extra movement going to be faster? Even if the two highly skilled are only .1 second difference, its a difference. I have never read anywhere that concealed carry is faster than OC. So please, show me the research you used to come to this conclusion.

    All my arguments, except this next one are objective. Comfort. In the end, this debate is answered by a subjective decision. What are you comfortable with? That's the final question. But, even objectively, I still read in all pro con OC vs cc, comfort is on the OC side.

    Again I never said it creates a crime free zone. There is never a guarantee, but statistically OC are left alone.

    In the link you posted, they don't say he was concealing, or he that he surprised the robber. Where did you read that? Most people that open carry have their concealment permit, so we all fit in that description. Most cc examples, cc gave them no advantage as the bad guy wouldn't have seen the open carry in those first few seconds anyways. When the criminal puts on the mask, gets his weapon ready, and barges in do you think he will notice an open carrier? No, chances are they won't, so cc and open are in the same shoes. But, in the case they do watch the bank first, why would they rob it street seeing an armed person go in? They would wait.

    I asked you for an example. You gave me a story about a ccw holder. He was open carrying and used the art of a faster draw to shoot the robber. If you can infer what happened so can I. Then you give me an imaginary robbery that doesn't work because you imagined it. Please real examples with more details then they were a ccw.

  8. #107
    You keep wanting "evidence" and examples of what makes CC better than OC. I could waste my time sifting through the news to find some but its pointless because at the end of the day, all you want to do is argue, and there are no studies to give you data on how OC and CC influence situations in which laws are broken. Its simply too hard to research and I know from looking into it during my college years.

    Draw time and comfort are subjective. There are a lot more factors that go into a draw time than simply having to lift up a shirt versus not having to.
    You also keep claiming open carrying deters crime but there is no evidence of that because you cant study it. Its hard enough to study whether or not more police on the street deter crime, and surprisingly enough, the studies that have tried, found that more cops on the street does not mean less crime. All you can do is try to find a few news stories that agree with your argument and that is not research and does not give you reliable data.

  9. #108
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    At the end if the day I want false information to stop spreading. I'll argue this false information as I choose.

    You don't want to back up your claims. Got it. You don't want to believe our examples. Got it.

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle:224272
    In regards to needing to conceal, if you really thought open carry was that much more of a tactical advantage, you would walk out of the store that wouldn't let you defend yourself how you see best.
    Forgot to get to this part of your post. I have never been in this situation. "sorry to break it to you" but I do not draw attention, I do not create a big fuss, and never have been asked to conceal. I would leave the store if they asked me to conceal it, and I would shop somewhere else. The only time I would conceal, is if they had a product I absolutely needed that I couldn't get elsewhere.

  11. #110
    All you can do is "back up" your opinions with a couple news stories you found using google on the internet. Since when is that legitimate research that you can use to make a claim? Never.

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