10 reasons for open carry - Page 5
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  1. #41
    Oh, and with a good public transportation system, they don't stay in their "territory" as you state. They venture out to get easy prey (a.k.a. flash mobs).

    A little story about an incident out of the "territory"... A buddy of mine was getting out of school about 8pm in the loop (basically, the business area in downtown Chicago) which is no where near "territory". He was walking to his car and approaching two younger kids. He didn't pay much attention to them and the next thing he knew one of them clocked him and he was laying on his backpack on the ground. This was done within view of some construction workers doing street maintenance who helped him out afterwards and called the police. According to the police, this was gang initiation and was widespread throughout the area at that time (a couple years ago). Don't mean to contradict myself, but in this particular case (if any type of carrying were legal here) an OC might have helped him... don't think they were at the level of shootings or murder yet if they were just doling out beatings.

    In the summertime, we have shootings everynight, ranging from 3-20 per night depending upon the weather. And yes, they mostly happen in the typical areas but not always. I'm surprised sometimes how good of shots they are becoming... when you read the news articles about shots from a MOVING car at 30+ ft with a handgun round and the "victim" (in quotes because these are most of the time rival gang members) gets it right between the eyes it makes you wonder, especially given the state of our streets! Where are they practicing when ranges are banned in Chicago?!?

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  3. #42
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    Seems you two misread my posts. Where in there did I say there are no gangs or hoods? Everyone lives within driving distance of a poor neighborhood. How many of those neighborhoods have daily gunfights? Yes, there are some, but they aren't as common as you make them seem. The average criminal, across the states, committing the crimes everyday, are not gang related. Yet all of b2tall posts are gang related arguments. Even posts where he displays himself as a bad guy repeatedly. If you think my post is so wrong, find a gang related attack involving targeting an open carrier. Should be really easy yeah?

    What store to rob. Armed guard or unarmed store. Both have money. You would choose the armed guard store? Where you went with that question, about your girlfriend, and you being a bad guy again, uh...ok.

    Mtallit: please reference my post. What was narrow minded? was it an example of how surprise won't work in defensive situations? Not sure what you are taking about.

    And no, I have not, nor do I plan, to live anywhere near chicago. How will cc your weapon help you in any of the situations you posted? It seems the gangs you speak of will kill their target, open or not, its all luck who they pick. As for them picking oc for bonus points, please site any reference when that has happened.

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    ...How many of those neighborhoods have daily gunfights? Yes, there are some, but they aren't as common as you make them seem. The average criminal, across the states, committing the crimes everyday, are not gang related. Yet all of b2tall posts are gang related arguments. Even posts where he displays himself as a bad guy repeatedly. If you think my post is so wrong, find a gang related attack involving targeting an open carrier. Should be really easy yeah?

    What store to rob. Armed guard or unarmed store. Both have money. You would choose the armed guard store? Where you went with that question, about your girlfriend, and you being a bad guy again, uh...ok.

    Mtallit: please reference my post. What was narrow minded? was it an example of how surprise won't work in defensive situations? Not sure what you are taking about.

    And no, I have not, nor do I plan, to live anywhere near chicago. How will cc your weapon help you in any of the situations you posted? It seems the gangs you speak of will kill their target, open or not, its all luck who they pick. As for them picking oc for bonus points, please site any reference when that has happened.
    This hood has daily gunfights, between criminals, between cops & criminals, between victims and criminals.

    CC'ing helps because you can blend in. That shiny, nickel-plated 1911 or whatever you carry makes you stand out!

    If carrying were allowed in Chicago, I'm sure there would be statistics to prove the point to you. Let me go back to the 1800's when almost everyone was open carrying, there are plenty of examples!!!!

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Not to offend anyone, but surprise is an offensive tactic. Most self defense scenarios are a defensive situation where surprise plays no role. There also has been no case where an open carrier was shot first in a crime.
    Firefighterchen, here was your post I was referring to when I said that you had a narrow-minded view of surprise as a defensive maneuver.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtallit:222415
    Oh, and with a good public transportation system, they don't stay in their "territory" as you state. They venture out to get easy prey (a.k.a. flash mobs).

    A little story about an incident out of the "territory"... A buddy of mine was getting out of school about 8pm in the loop (basically, the business area in downtown Chicago) which is no where near "territory". He was walking to his car and approaching two younger kids. He didn't pay much attention to them and the next thing he knew one of them clocked him and he was laying on his backpack on the ground. This was done within view of some construction workers doing street maintenance who helped him out afterwards and called the police. According to the police, this was gang initiation and was widespread throughout the area at that time (a couple years ago). Don't mean to contradict myself, but in this particular case (if any type of carrying were legal here) an OC might have helped him... don't think they were at the level of shootings or murder yet if they were just doling out beatings.

    In the summertime, we have shootings everynight, ranging from 3-20 per night depending upon the weather. And yes, they mostly happen in the typical areas but not always. I'm surprised sometimes how good of shots they are becoming... when you read the news articles about shots from a MOVING car at 30+ ft with a handgun round and the "victim" (in quotes because these are most of the time rival gang members) gets it right between the eyes it makes you wonder, especially given the state of our streets! Where are they practicing when ranges are banned in Chicago?!?
    I'm glad your friend was not killed. You have to contradict yourself though, because open carry very well could have deterred this assault, where cc would have changed nothing. More importantly, situational awareness could have affected the outcome much more.

    Most of the United States is not like Chicago though. Keep in mind, where you live, is not the norm, and my best advice for anyone in a situation in Chicago, is to move somewhere safer.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtallit:222421
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    ...How many of those neighborhoods have daily gunfights? Yes, there are some, but they aren't as common as you make them seem. The average criminal, across the states, committing the crimes everyday, are not gang related. Yet all of b2tall posts are gang related arguments. Even posts where he displays himself as a bad guy repeatedly. If you think my post is so wrong, find a gang related attack involving targeting an open carrier. Should be really easy yeah?

    What store to rob. Armed guard or unarmed store. Both have money. You would choose the armed guard store? Where you went with that question, about your girlfriend, and you being a bad guy again, uh...ok.

    Mtallit: please reference my post. What was narrow minded? was it an example of how surprise won't work in defensive situations? Not sure what you are taking about.

    And no, I have not, nor do I plan, to live anywhere near chicago. How will cc your weapon help you in any of the situations you posted? It seems the gangs you speak of will kill their target, open or not, its all luck who they pick. As for them picking oc for bonus points, please site any reference when that has happened.
    This hood has daily gunfights, between criminals, between cops & criminals, between victims and criminals.

    CC'ing helps because you can blend in. That shiny, nickel-plated 1911 or whatever you carry makes you stand out!

    If carrying were allowed in Chicago, I'm sure there would be statistics to prove the point to you. Let me go back to the 1800's when almost everyone was open carrying, there are plenty of examples!!!!
    I have no doubt that is what its like near chicago. Chicago is a bad place to be. Since there are no statistics, I'm going to stick to my mindset, that has been proven to be a deterrent by criminals interviews.

    Fyi all my guns are flat black, in flat black holsters. No nickel plating for me.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtallit:222423
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Not to offend anyone, but surprise is an offensive tactic. Most self defense scenarios are a defensive situation where surprise plays no role. There also has been no case where an open carrier was shot first in a crime.
    Firefighterchen, here was your post I was referring to when I said that you had a narrow-minded view of surprise as a defensive maneuver.
    I agree, the best defense is a good offense. But how will you surprise a criminal that already used his surprise tactic? Becoming offensive, as fast as possible, in defense, is the best strategy. Would i call that surprise, no.

  9. #48
    Firefighterchen and NavyLCDR, I do appreciate you guys being ambassadors of us freedom loving Americans and spreading the good word about lawful armed citizens. I don't have the huevos or bravado, whichever it is, to carry openly.

    When the courts strike down the Illinois & Chicago carry bans - which WILL happen soon - I'll likely still CC versus OC. I CC in the states around Illinois, especially Indiana since my inlaws live there, and we visit quite often. Indiana, now there's a gun friendly state!

    Given the way Chicago is, genuinely unfriendly to firearms and dangerous, I will CC when it becomes legal here also to fly under the radar and have the element of surprise when I need it.

    I definitely understand some of the basic benefits of OC such as the slightly better speed of draw & comfort. Keep up the good work and keep the shiny side up when riding.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtallit View Post
    Firefighterchen and NavyLCDR, I do appreciate you guys being ambassadors of us freedom loving Americans and spreading the good word about lawful armed citizens. I don't have the huevos or bravado, whichever it is, to carry openly.

    When the courts strike down the Illinois & Chicago carry bans - which WILL happen soon - I'll likely still CC versus OC. I CC in the states around Illinois, especially Indiana since my inlaws live there, and we visit quite often. Indiana, now there's a gun friendly state!

    Given the way Chicago is, genuinely unfriendly to firearms and dangerous, I will CC when it becomes legal here also to fly under the radar and have the element of surprise when I need it.

    I definitely understand some of the basic benefits of OC such as the slightly better speed of draw & comfort. Keep up the good work and keep the shiny side up when riding.
    :) I was an adamant cc before I moved to WA. When I had to wait a month to get my CC here, I decided to OC. After you carry for so long, not carrying feels like you are naked! This month opened my eyes to a whole new world of carrying. I would CC if I could legally, if I ever found myself in Chicago (Lot of if's to fulfill). Luckily, I live in an area where OC has a great advantage. Stay safe!

    It was interesting that I thought I would cc again once I got my permit here. But since I have gotten the permit, I still OC because of the life I want to represent. Today was a great day when I talked with a guy outside my apartments about guns and ranges around town. His first words were, "Hey! You are an open carrier! How has that been for you?" He sounded really excited. After our conversation he left with a smile. Have a good day :)

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    This says it all and it's straight from our favorite website.

    Are You Crazy If You Open Carry?
    Did you read the comments below the article? This wasn't the websites more popular article by any means. There are others that agree with you. There are others that don't agree with you. Here is an articles for open carry:

    Maine Open Carry Association - Why Open Carry?

    This says it all.

    ADD: I just read a few pages worth of comments below that article. 99.9% are in complete objection to the article. It made me smile :)

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