10 reasons for open carry - Page 6
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Thread: 10 reasons for open carry

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Wow. Amazing that you can make such a statement with such absolute certainty. You're also 10000000000% wrong. Wanna know why?? Because if I'm determined to rob a place for whatever reason and I see you and your gun in my way, I'm targeting you first....ergo your statement is incorrect.
    That would make you a rather UNCOMMON criminal. Most criminals don't want to take the risk. Most will move on to find an easier target. Or, as in the case of a restaurant in Kennesaw Mountain, GA, wait until the OCers leave. Too bad for those guys, while they were waiting, the police arrived and thought they looked suspicious.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I would CC if I could legally, if I ever found myself in Chicago (Lot of if's to fulfill). Luckily, I live in an area where OC has a great advantage. Stay safe!
    And this is the truth of it.... there can be no blanket statements made about which is better. Any CC only person who says, "You WILL be shot first if you open carry" or "Open carry makes you a target" is full of baloney, because that statement simply is not true across the board, across the country. Here in 95% of Washington state, open carry is going to deter most crimes. That's just the fact of it. And the examples of the crimes we have here (Wal Mart armored truck guard shot, police officers shot in coffee shops), concealed carry would not have PREVENTED the crime either. In those situations a concealed carrier might have been able to shoot the fleeing criminals, but the criminals had already used their "element of surprise" to execute their victims.

    An OC only person who says that open carry will deter ALL crimes is also full of baloney. It simply won't. There are areas of this country where it is probably far more dangerous to OC than to conceal.

    But blanket statements that open carry is better than concealed everywhere - or that concealed carry is better than open everywhere - just make people look opinionated, with closed minds, unwilling to accept any form of factual reasoning which doesn't fit into their prejudiced way of thinking.

    That all being said, we are still looking for just one example where Joe Citizen open carrying a firearm, not wearing a badge or uniform, was shot first in a robbery as soon as the criminal noticed his gun.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #53
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    In answer to an earlier statement I would never open fire with bystanders around unless said bystanders were attacking wife/family/self, all bets are off. In answer to which store would you rob open carry or the little old couple, my wife and I are a little old couple and we carry. Store has insurance, if BG's involve wife and I, they need insurance. Finally open carry or concealed carry places can and are robbed all the time.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    That would make you a rather UNCOMMON criminal. Most criminals don't want to take the risk. Most will move on to find an easier target. Or, as in the case of a restaurant in Kennesaw Mountain, GA, wait until the OCers leave. Too bad for those guys, while they were waiting, the police arrived and thought they looked suspicious.
    "Most" being the key word in your post. I agree that most BGs would move to another target (on a side note, it wouldn't stop crime....it would just move it to another location) but "most" isn't good enough. There are too many who either don't care, are desperate, or who'd see a sidearm as an added bonus to whatever cash they'd get in the stickup. It doesn't mean an OCer is automatically going to get shot, but in all probability it does mean that there's going to be a gun pointed right at them while their weapon (the OCer's) is still in it's holster.

    I'd rather be the ordinary Joe as opposed to somebody standing out in the crowd because they have a pistol on their belt.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    "Most" being the key word in your post. I agree that most BGs would move to another target (on a side note, it wouldn't stop crime....it would just move it to another location) but "most" isn't good enough. There are too many who either don't care, are desperate, or who'd see a sidearm as an added bonus to whatever cash they'd get in the stickup. It doesn't mean an OCer is automatically going to get shot, but in all probability it does mean that there's going to be a gun pointed right at them while their weapon (the OCer's) is still in it's holster.

    I'd rather be the ordinary Joe as opposed to somebody standing out in the crowd because they have a pistol on their belt.
    If I carry concealed, I'm more likely to be targeted and attacked/confronted with a potential robber, who more than likely will have the drop on me. If he's not using a firearm, I MIGHT have a chance. EVERYTHING is loaded with possibilities. Based on studies, I'm far less likely to be a target of criminal attack if I OC, than if I CC. Generally speaking, the odds are in my favor.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    If I carry concealed, I'm more likely to be targeted and attacked/confronted with a potential robber, who more than likely will have the drop on me.
    Every robber will have the drop on you. They don't carry signs or give people a 2 minute warning. You don't know it's a stickup until it's already in progress. At that point they probably know you're armed and will take whatever steps they deem necessary to eliminate you as a threat (either by disarming you or in a worst-case scenario - shooting you). I'd rather the BG(s) not know I have the ability to shoot them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    If he's not using a firearm, I MIGHT have a chance. EVERYTHING is loaded with possibilities. Based on studies, I'm far less likely to be a target of criminal attack if I OC, than if I CC. Generally speaking, the odds are in my favor.
    What studies are those? I'd like to take a look at them.

    Based on common sense, I believe the odds are in my favor if they don't know I'm armed.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    "Most" being the key word in your post. I agree that most BGs would move to another target (on a side note, it wouldn't stop crime....it would just move it to another location) but "most" isn't good enough. There are too many who either don't care, are desperate, or who'd see a sidearm as an added bonus to whatever cash they'd get in the stickup. It doesn't mean an OCer is automatically going to get shot, but in all probability it does mean that there's going to be a gun pointed right at them while their weapon (the OCer's) is still in it's holster.

    I'd rather be the ordinary Joe as opposed to somebody standing out in the crowd because they have a pistol on their belt.
    This is the first time you have agreed that your view on criminals is not common. Please, it's time you find anything on a criminal who thought that a gun will be a bonus to whatever else they could get off you. You still have not provided anything, nothing, squat, zip, zero. Your imagination is not an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Every robber will have the drop on you. They don't carry signs or give people a 2 minute warning. You don't know it's a stickup until it's already in progress. At that point they probably know you're armed and will take whatever steps they deem necessary to eliminate you as a threat (either by disarming you or in a worst-case scenario - shooting you). I'd rather the BG(s) not know I have the ability to shoot them.



    What studies are those? I'd like to take a look at them.

    Based on common sense, I believe the odds are in my favor if they don't know I'm armed.
    Seeing as you finally agreed most criminals are not the kind that you view...it would be common sense that deterrence works better than concealment against the common criminal.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Seeing as you finally agreed most criminals are not the kind that you view...it would be common sense that deterrence works better than concealment against the common criminal.
    I guess it is you, Big Gay Al and NavyLCDR's collective turn to argue against the OC myths that B2Tall likes to spout.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    I guess it is you, Big Gay Al and NavyLCDR's collective turn to argue against the OC myths that B2Tall likes to spout.
    We try. We should be trying to get the big picture across more though. OC or CC is better than not carrying. Each has its better circumstances. I believe that OC do not have issues with CC...but a lot of people CC have issues with OC. CC continually spouts lies and myths as fact. That's what we defend over and over. Not that OC is the end all nor that CC is worthless. I have to give thanks to NavyLCDR and a few others that have pushed me to the point I am at now. Even B2Tall can take some credit, because his posts are by far the ones that push me the hardest to look up even more information, which makes my foundation even stronger, because I can not find anything he posts as fact being true.

  11. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Every robber will have the drop on you. They don't carry signs or give people a 2 minute warning. You don't know it's a stickup until it's already in progress. At that point they probably know you're armed and will take whatever steps they deem necessary to eliminate you as a threat (either by disarming you or in a worst-case scenario - shooting you). I'd rather the BG(s) not know I have the ability to shoot them.
    Even if you CC, if you're the target of an armed robber, he still has the drop on you. What good will your gun do you then?




    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    What studies are those? I'd like to take a look at them.

    Based on common sense, I believe the odds are in my favor if they don't know I'm armed.
    The most significant one I can think of is "The Armed Criminal in America," by Dr. Paul H. Blackman.

    The conclusions reached are that fear of the armed citizen and the threat of tough punishment for using a gun or other weapons while committing a violent crime are significant factors in both reducing and deterring crime. While not addressing open carry specifically, it's easy to postulate that if the criminal sees various targets, some of which are armed, and some that are apparently not, they will go after the "apparently" softer targets every time.

    I've already mentioned one documented instance. There's another instance in Concealed Carry Magazine. In that story, the potential object of criminal attack was carrying concealed. He noticed he and his wife were being followed, and determined that they would potentially become the object of a criminal attack. Without going into great detail, he managed to let the potential attacker see that he was armed. The man following them suddenly realized he had a prior engagement, and went the other way.

    I can tell you from my own experience, back when I first started working as a security guard, I had an instance where 2 rowdy drunks were bothering people in the bowling alley I worked at. I politely asked them to leave before I was forced to call the police. Per the manager's instructions, I followed them out, to make sure they left.

    Of course, being drunk, and 2 of them to one of me, they were more stupid than brave. And of course, kept mouthing off. Their one comment that got my attention was "We should just beat the crap out of the rent a cop, he doesn't have a gun." Of course, this comment also told me they were blind as well as drunk. I was carrying a .357 magnum revolver at the time.

    Just before they left, I complimented them on their decision to not attack me, as I would have hated all the paperwork involved if I'd had to shoot them. They both turned a little pale when they realized their mistake.

    My other point being, not everyone notices the openly carried firearm. Even when you wear a uniform commonly associated with the carrying of firearms.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

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