Why Open Carry is a bad Strategy - Page 31
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Thread: Why Open Carry is a bad Strategy

  1. #301
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    Bikenut...
    Awesome post !

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  3. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post

    I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to stop an attack before it starts... and OC has that ability where CC has the ability to make the carrier look exactly like all the other potential victims the bad guy is thinking of attacking.
    There are armed guards in banks and sophisticated video cameras, yet the bank robbers are not deterred.

    Four armed police officers sitting in a restaurant did not deter the scum intent on shooting them.

    There are video cameras practically everywhere with almost instant public dissemination on the internet, and yet the thugs are unconcerned with getting caught, whether it be armed robbery or mugging on the streets.

    If armed guards, armed police, and video cams don't deter these thugs, what leads you to believe that your display of a weapon on your hip is going to make a difference? All is it going to do is allow them to take you into account in their plans.

    You know why police wear vests? Because they expect to be shot at. You know why they expect to be shot at? Because the thugs know they are armed.

    You might as well wear a target with that oc.

  4. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    I'm looking forward to the day when open carried is allowed in New York. That way, I can still carried concealed and let all the cowboys around me provide the targets for the criminals who aren't deterred by open carry.
    Cowboys? Seriously?

    It never ceases to amaze me how supposed supporters of RTKBA fail to see the irony of using anti-gun rhetoric on one another.
    Independence is the recognition of the fact that yours is the responsibility of judgment and nothing can help you escape it – that no substitute can do your thinking ...

  5. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods:269858
    There are armed guards in banks and sophisticated video cameras, yet the bank robbers are not deterred.

    Four armed police officers sitting in a restaurant did not deter the scum intent on shooting them.

    There are video cameras practically everywhere with almost instant public dissemination on the internet, and yet the thugs are unconcerned with getting caught, whether it be armed robbery or mugging on the streets.

    If armed guards, armed police, and video cams don't deter these thugs, what leads you to believe that your display of a weapon on your hip is going to make a difference? All is it going to do is allow them to take you into account in their plans.

    You know why police wear vests? Because they expect to be shot at. You know why they expect to be shot at? Because the thugs know they are armed.

    You might as well wear a target with that oc.
    You forgot to mention when average Joe open carrier had gotten shot, or targeted...having trouble finding stories?

    why don't you include our soldiers? They have really big guns and get shot at everyday...oh but we citizens aren't police officers, aren't armed guards, aren't soldiers....

    You tube The Armed Citizen. I'm not saying cc is bad, it has saved lives for sure, but you don't hear about all the gun fights open carriers are having...but I do read about concealed carriers getting in gun fights often. So who exactly are these gun fighting cowboy ninjas? Would seem cc'ers have the itchy trigger fingers....

    you might as well be wearing a "gun free zone" t shirt when you cc...after all you guys want to get picked right? And you're still supporting the hide/ban the guns crowd. Two birds with one stone.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    There are armed guards in banks and sophisticated video cameras, yet the bank robbers are not deterred.

    Four armed police officers sitting in a restaurant did not deter the scum intent on shooting them.

    There are video cameras practically everywhere with almost instant public dissemination on the internet, and yet the thugs are unconcerned with getting caught, whether it be armed robbery or mugging on the streets.

    If armed guards, armed police, and video cams don't deter these thugs, what leads you to believe that your display of a weapon on your hip is going to make a difference? All is it going to do is allow them to take you into account in their plans.

    You know why police wear vests? Because they expect to be shot at. You know why they expect to be shot at? Because the thugs know they are armed.

    You might as well wear a target with that oc.
    So exactly how will CC prevent all those threats you think OC will have no effect on? What exactly leads you to believe that the gun hidden in your pocket is going to make a difference?

    OC may not deter the extremely determined criminal but then CC sure wouldn't either. And if a determined criminal is going to attack both the OC'er and the CC'er are in the same crap filled boat of having to respond after the attack happens.

    But what some folks are missing is that OC can deter the not so determined criminal by causing him to decide not to attack due to the known presence of a gun but CC deters no one from initiating an attack because the gun isn't seen. Yet some folks still think OC doesn't deter any criminals and that it is better to unleash their stealth ninja bad arse "element of surprise" all over the bad guy after the attack begins and make that bad guy sorry he ever tried to mess with them.

    And, at least in my book, any attack from any criminal determined or not so determined, that OC caused to never start, never happen, and I didn't have to shoot somebody to stop from continuing, is far better than CC'ing and relying on opening a super bad arse can of "element of surprise" after the attack started, is happening, and I now might have to shoot someone to stop, .... and winding up having to deal with the aftermath of shooting a bad guy.

    OC can stop some attacks before they start but won't stop all them.... but CC doesn't stop any of them before they start because if you CC you look exactly like all the other easy targets as the bad guy looks for his next victim.

    But then looking just like everyone else is exactly what some CC'ers want because they are worried other people will shun them, will give them dirty looks, or golly!, might even laugh at them. And if the criminal attacks why they can unleash their magical mystical stealth super ninja power can of "element of surprise" all over that poor misguided bad guy and make him rue the day he messed with.............. SUPER CC'er!

    Sometimes I get the horrible impression some CC'ers hope a bad guy will mess with them so they will have the long awaited opportunity to whip out their hidden gun and go all knight in shining armor all over some bad guy.

  7. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    2. What is this whole element of surprise thing about CCW? Only an offender has the element of surprise. A defender doesn't. A swat team raids a drug house at 5 am when everyone is sleeping. That is the element of surprise. Carrying concealed over carrying open isn't about the element of surprise--It is about being able to function normally in daily life without alerting BGs. It is so BGs when choosing/selecting a target/victim think they are looking at a lamb, when in fact they are looking at a lion. So again it isn't about the element of surprise, but disguise. Simple.
    So you want to disguise yourself so they pick you? You would rather them not get scared of the lion and stay away from you, instead be the lamb that they can easily eat? Why would you want that?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    One more thing, and this is my opinion, as well as that of many others and one major problem I have. It may stir upmsome controversy, but it really gets my goat. I see way too many OCers rationalize or defend their carry stating it is to "educate" people or make them understand the right to carry/educate them on 2A. This is the wrong reason to carry open. Carrying a gun is for self protection only. It is not and should in any way be a political or educational statement. And for god sakes it better not be done for a macho or coolness factor, I pray!
    There are many factors that come into play when you decide which method you want to carry. Why is it wrong if educating/political statement is one of those reasons? What is so bad about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    If I was to open carry, and I may at sometime though I don't now and never have(regarding my name I do live in Nevada,) it would be for speed of engagement only while fully understanding the tactical disadvantages. I WOULD NEVER DO IT FOR POLITICAL REASONS. In fact I respectfully ask anyone to give me a tactical advantage other than speed of draw, and please don't use element of surprise cuz that is absolutely BS.
    Are you asking what other advantages OC gives you? Deterrence. Comfort. Larger frame/caliber. Not just faster, but less chance of something getting in your grip when reaching for your handgun.

    I ask you this, besides the minute chances of being targeted by a determined bad guy (which btw is also a problem for CC), what are the disadvantages OC has that you fully understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    Regarding the political statement of OC, I am not against making political statements in favor of pro gun, cc, or OC attitudes. I only believe carryin open is the wrong way to make a political statement. I believe there are other ways.

    Join the NRA, GOA, USCCA, JPFO, etc... and vote for pro gun, pro 2A candidates. Get out and vote... That is the best political statement of all! BAM!
    Yes there are multiple ways to be political about firearms. We should be venturing each avenue to get our firearms back un-infringed. What is wrong with open carrying as a political statement, so much so you are telling others to not do it?
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #307
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    I have a very simple question for the CC'ers who are so adamantly against OC..........

    If a CC'er pulls his gun out from hiding and when the criminal sees it he decides to stop attacking and no shots are fired... what stopped the attack?"

    I'll answer it for you.

    The sight of the gun stopped the attack.

    Here is another question......

    So if the sight of a gun that was pulled out of CC hiding stops an attack already in progress exactly why wouldn't the OC'd gun in plain sight stop an attack before it even starts?

    Edited to add:
    I certainly hope someone beside crickets answers that last question...... but I'll not hold my breath while waiting.

  9. LOL @ everyone who thinks the "element of surprise" matters or even exists.

    If someone attacks you directly while you're CC, guess who's been taken by surprise? Duh.

    If someone else is being attacked nearby, what does it matter if you were open or concealed carrying? You aren't the intended victim, so the mode of carry is irrelevant. Also, if the criminal has any sense in his head, and you were open carrying in the first place, the criminal may have moved onto another establishment since there's obviously someone here who's going to fight back.

    The whole "element of surprise" argument is laughable, considering the lawful carrying of a firearm is an inherently defensive tactic. Anyone who thinks carrying a firearm for self-protection has anything whatsoever to do with being "offensive" is, in short, a moron.

  10. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    There are armed guards in banks and sophisticated video cameras, yet the bank robbers are not deterred.

    Four armed police officers sitting in a restaurant did not deter the scum intent on shooting them.

    There are video cameras practically everywhere with almost instant public dissemination on the internet, and yet the thugs are unconcerned with getting caught, whether it be armed robbery or mugging on the streets.

    If armed guards, armed police, and video cams don't deter these thugs, what leads you to believe that your display of a weapon on your hip is going to make a difference? All is it going to do is allow them to take you into account in their plans.

    You know why police wear vests? Because they expect to be shot at. You know why they expect to be shot at? Because the thugs know they are armed.

    You might as well wear a target with that oc.
    You bring up good points here. No gun and no person will deter a determined criminal with strong intent. In these cases, the only thing that will stop them is a bullet, and the sight of a gun might just make you their next target.

    For many other criminals who are not as determined, the sight of a gun may deter them, although I would not plan on it. The funny thing however is that to deter a criminal with open carrying, the criminal has to actually see your openly carried gun, and I have seen a lot of pictures of people who say they are open carriers because they put their tiny little pocket pistol in a holster that could be easily mistaken for a cell phone, and they wear a black shirt to hide it even more. I say if you are going to open carry to deter crime, you better carry a full size gun that is easily noticeable. Not your little Ruger LCP in a black holster that covers the gun.

  11. #310
    99% of the time I cc the 1% when I oc is if I'm running around the woods working on the farm. I don't oc in public as a personal choice. I don't like people other than my wife knowing I'm carrying when I'm in town. In my town you can oc normally without any issue. However the new
    Mayor is a big anti gun type so it's best to avoid any of that

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