Pre-School meet and greet. - Page 3
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Thread: Pre-School meet and greet.

  1. Just for legal clarification: Utah regulations are much more reasonable regarding firearms possession and carrying in daycare centers/preschools than Washington law is:

    http://daycare.com/utah/12c.pdf

    (4) The following items shall be inaccessible to children:
    (a) firearms, ammunition, and other weapons on the premises. Firearms shall be stored separately from ammunition, in a locked cabinet or area, unless the use is in accordance with the Utah Concealed Weapons Act, or as otherwise allowed by law;

    Rationale / Explanation
    The purpose of this rule is to prevent child injuries or deaths from firearms. Children have a natural curiosity about firearms and have often seen their use glamorized on television. Firearms pose a great potential for tragic accidents with children. CFOC, pg. 252 Standard 5.161; pg. 354 Standard 8.039

    Enforcement
    This rule applies to both indoor and outdoor areas.

    Firearms include guns, muzzle loaders, rifles, shotguns, hand guns, pistols, and automatic guns.
    Firearms must be stored separately from ammunition, in a cabinet or area that is locked with a key or combination lock. Use of a trigger lock is not an acceptable alternative to storing firearms in a locked cabinet or area.

    A weapon is defined as an item for which the intended use can cause harm or death to people or animals.
    Paintball guns, BB guns, and Airsoft guns are considered weapons, and must be inaccessible to children in care. Child Care Center Rules Manual, 4-1-11 Section 12, Page 2

    R430-100-12. INJURY PREVENTION.
    Always Level 1 Noncompliance except as described below for Level 2.
    Level 2 Noncompliance: If a gun has a trigger lock through the barrel of the gun and is stored in an unlocked
    room/area.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kloutier View Post
    So I ended up carrying despite your warnings. And guess what. Nothing happen. I don't know why you guys say things like Don't use your rights and They will kick your child out. Perhaps you guys are from CA or some other socialist state. In my state I am approved by law to carry. No problem Ed Hurtley No hard feelings. Utah is a bit different and I think I will tend to stick around UCC/ more. At least people their are not stuck on being Dirty harry. I carry openly because it is my right. I carry Openly because it there is nothing wrong with it.
    It's the same way with breast feeding in public.

  4. Glad it went well, and glad you're in an area where that didn't draw unwanted attention. The way I read your initial post, you came across to me as the "Dirty Harry" type. Obviously based on your further posts, you're not.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by olsparky View Post
    I see no benefit to OC in this situation. I do see several possible negatives.
    Why does there have to be a benefit? If it's legal in UT then it's legal. Who cares what other people think? Caring about "hurting someone feelings" Is how NY,NJ,MA,MD and CA got to be the way they are. I'm from MA so I know FIRST HAND what your way of thinking or "fear" of scaring people leads to.


    Just because we have the right does not mean it is always wise to exercise it.
    I'm Speechless

  6. #25
    I don't know why being considerate of others is seen as a weakness to some people. I'll be honest, I don't really understand the OC mentality. I don't hold anything against people who choose to do it, I just don't understand it. I don't feel the need to let anyone know that I am armed. I also don't know how OC helps maintain my right to carry. Let me give you an example. My brother prefers to OC, and does it almost exclusively. He went to a restaurant and after a few minutes at his table was asked to put his gun in the car because it was upsetting some customers. That restaurant now has a prominent sign posted that says "No Weapons Allowed." There are also two malls that I can no longer carry in because he was approached and made aware of the mall's policy of no weapons. The policies were already in place, but the signs posted were not very easily seen and had to be pointed out to us. That is three locations that I had carried that I am not able to now because of OC.

    My wife and I run a daycare. All of our clients know that I am a firearms instructor. They also know that I do not carry when kids are present. We have a no OC policy for a couple of reasons. The first is to avoid issues with the children. When you have that many kids, which range from infant to 10 years old, there are a lot of different reactions that take place when something out-of-the-ordinary happens, like seeing a gun. Trying to avoid stressing the kids and disrupting routines is the major reason for not allowing OC. The other is to avoid freaking out parents. It is my business and I need parents to feel comfortable or they will take their business elsewhere. I don't have a no gun policy, just a no OC policy. It isn't posted on a door, it is something we discuss during the initial meeting before children are admitted.

    I try to put myself in the shoes of the business owner when I am out in public. The owner might be a big gun rights advocate, but he/she needs to do business and be profitable. If customers are uncomfortable it is bad for business, and the easiest solution is to put up a sign saying no weapons allowed. I have never seen a sign that says, "No Open Carry," or "Please conceal your gun." I conceal because it allows me to exercise my right while being considerate of others that might not understand it. I also feel that it is more considerate to businesses because I am not interfering with their ability to do business.

    (Just a side note about why I don't carry at the daycare. Children have the habit of running into you to give hugs, wrestle, hide from other kids, etc. They also jump on you when you sit down or get on the ground. I don't want a kid to hurt themselves on my gun when they run into me. Also, I don't want a kid to wonder if I have a gun. I want them to feel safe, and if they feel that I have a gun because it's not safe, it causes them unnecessary stress and fear. I know how to securely carry so it isn't that I fear that the kids will have access to my gun, but why risk it.)

  7. #26
    If people aren't comfortable OC'ing then they don't have too. But the more people don't do it to make people "feel safe" are guaranteeing that their guns rights are going down the crapper. They are making sure that people ARE scared every time they do see a gun. Which will just lead to more restrictive gun laws. It doesn't stop at loosing the ability to OC, trust me. Once the mindset that the good guys are a danger to everybody is achieved, there's no stopping it. In states that allow OC, AND where people actually do it, people are desensitized to guns and are very aware that there in no danger from being near someone who carries. I've always thought of UT to have good laws but from what you've described between the gun buster signs going up in malls, you wanting people to "feel safe" people of your state are already giving in the the propaganda. You may THINK your helping your gun rights by making the anti's happy under the incorrect assumption that it'll make them leave your rights alone....IT WON'T! As an instructor you should be educating people otherwise, and making sure your students do the same when they leave your classes. The gun grabber states have PROVEN this is the only result when we make compromises with out alleged rights. But like everybody you won't believe it until it's too late. Take the advice of somebody that has gone through it. It WILL happen if you guys don't fight while you still can! Good Luck.

  8. #27
    @snatale42

    In my classes I teach the law, handling, and technique. If asked my preference I tell them I prefer to conceal, and if asked why I tell them it is a personal choice that each of them has to make.

    Utah is about as good a gun state that's out there from all I have read and experienced. The vast majority are gun supporters, and our laws make it easy to carry most places including college campuses. But it isn't like the old west with everyone walking around with a gun on their hip for everyone to see. When people see someone OC they usually have a look of surprise. That is going to take time, and a lot more people to OC to change.

    I appreciate your opinion and perspective. You have given me some things I haven't thought about from in that light. If you ever decide to leave tyranny and are looking for a place to go, I do highly recommend Utah. Maybe you can help people get used to OC :)

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    7,733
    I don't mean to start a riot but I have an honest question.

    Can a ghetto resident with a clean criminal record ever gain acceptance for OC in the hood? It's a real question. Do we think anyone will ever support his bid to OC or will they remain afraid of him because of race, where he lives, etc. Will police grab him daily and violate his rights?
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  10. #29
    Many people feel safer when seeing a friendly person OCing. I have seen the evidence every time I have OCed, or seen somebody else OCing.
    Would a BG OC? Especially without a permit?

  11. #30
    What a retarded man you are they let YOU have a permit???!!!!!! WTF!!!!!

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