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Thread: Open carry experience...

  1. #121
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    Gremlin Fail

    Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    Anyone know the details of this OCer being attacked?

    Customer attacked at Garcia's restaurant | KOB.com
    Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    Family: No fight over cop's gun | albuquerque, nm | krqe news 13 new mexico

    Making things up to prove your point helps no one. I don't see any indication you meant to be sarcastic......

    From the article.
    APD had arrested Chris Torres in February for impersonating a federal agent. Police said he stood up in a restaurant and declared he was with the Drug Enforcement Agency, and that another customer was trying to rob the place.
    Uh...two links to two reports. Nice one. This is from YOUR article,

    'Garcia had a gun on his hip, in a holster. Torres saw this, announced to everyone that he was a DEA agent and said he had video evidence that Garcia was planning to rob the restaurant. "

    So before you start calling people names, maybe you should check yourself.

    The great thing about the internet is you can put your own voice to my text. I will not include *sarcasm* explanations to accommodate you, sorry.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Looks like he got assaulted by some whacko pretending to be a cop. Of course if he'd been CCing then this wouldn't have happened.
    I like how he knows exactly what a mentally ill person thinks. He knows, for sure, that mentally ill people off their medication would not have attacked someone :-/ I also like how he calls mentally ill people wackos...I wonder what he calls down syndrome kids and Alzheimer patients?

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Uh...two links to two reports. Nice one. This is from YOUR article,

    'Garcia had a gun on his hip, in a holster. Torres saw this, announced to everyone that he was a DEA agent and said he had video evidence that Garcia was planning to rob the restaurant. "

    So before you start calling people names, maybe you should check yourself.

    The great thing about the internet is you can put your own voice to my text. I will not include *sarcasm* explanations to accommodate you, sorry.
    Dude... READING COMPREHENSION.

    To sum it up
    1st article from Albuquerque, article from February 2011
    Christopher Torres (said to have mental issues) walks into restraunt CLAIMS to be DEA, attacks patron who is carrying weapon, Christopher gets arrested, patron also arrested.

    2nd article from Albuquerque, article from April 2011
    Christopher Torres (said to have mental issues) is shot by cops, article states.
    "APD had arrested Chris Torres in February for impersonating a federal agent. Police said he stood up in a restaurant and declared he was with the Drug Enforcement Agency, and that another customer was trying to rob the place"

    What you said
    The DEA agent had video evidence he was going to rob the place... WRONG!

    It had nothing to do with a mentality disturbed person at all... WRONG!

    I'm glad I don't live there, I can't think of any restaurant or diner that doesn't sell alcohol... Um ok

    Now.... either to live in Albuquerque you must be named Christopher Torres, have mental issues, and claim to be a DEA agent OR your reading comprehension is an EPIC FAIL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    So before you start calling people names, maybe you should check yourself.
    Practice what you preach.

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    You have peaked my interest... I am going to open a thread to see if anyone here from Utah is an OCer. Explain one thing... What is it about OCing that deters crime? It can't just be the fact that they know you have a gun. If it was so there wouldn't be nearly as many police officer widows. But i'm fairly new so i'm not sure of the arguement.
    This has come up before in multiple threads...since some of these kinds of threads are 100's of pages long, it's hard to find them all.

    Police are targeted for completely different reasons than a civilian. Police are killed when bad guys are trying to escape the authority of law. There are very rare instances of police being targets for the single act of murder (as in the bad guy has not been caught for another crime, and is not attempting to escape). For the majority of police deaths, the bad guys don't want to get caught, so they will kill their way free. Civilians aren't trying to arrest bad guys.

    This goes the same with armed guards (ie: Money transports). The average person isn't carrying a bag of $10k+ around with a sign over their head saying, " I Have a lot of money!" So, all the armed guards being shot from behind don't fall into the same category as a civilian.

    On the contrary, both these professions use open carry to not only deter crime, but to react to an attack faster than if they concealed their weapons. Risk vs Benefit. There are very few criminals that will attempt such a high risk robbery. When it comes to civilians, is that same high risk robbery worth the $50? $1000?

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    Dude... READING COMPREHENSION.

    To sum it up
    1st article from Albuquerque, article from February 2011
    Christopher Torres (said to have mental issues) walks into restraunt CLAIMS to be DEA, attacks patron who is carrying weapon, Christopher gets arrested, patron also arrested.

    2nd article from Albuquerque, article from April 2011
    Christopher Torres (said to have mental issues) is shot by cops, article states.
    "APD had arrested Chris Torres in February for impersonating a federal agent. Police said he stood up in a restaurant and declared he was with the Drug Enforcement Agency, and that another customer was trying to rob the place"

    What you said
    The DEA agent had video evidence he was going to rob the place... WRONG!

    It had nothing to do with a mentality disturbed person at all... WRONG!

    I'm glad I don't live there, I can't think of any restaurant or diner that doesn't sell alcohol... Um ok

    Now.... either to live in Albuquerque you must be named Christopher Torres, have mental issues, and claim to be a DEA agent OR your reading comprehension is an EPIC FAIL.


    Practice what you preach.

    (Edit)
    OMG... both links even have videos that explain the same... what do you need? A pop up book?
    Sigh what a lack of common sense, or should I say common sense "EPIC FAIL"....since you still can't tell, I will accommodate you and put *sarcasm* in so you don't get confused.

    The DEA agent had video evidence he was going to rob the place... *SARCASM*

    It had nothing to do with mentally disturbed person at all... *SARCASM*

    I can't believe you didn't get that...did you really think someone could read your article and seriously think Torres was a DEA agent?

    I don't remember ever calling you names...so I am practicing what I'm preaching.

    To be fair, I didn't even read your second article, since I figured you snipped out the important part, and my original post you quoted was from your first article anyways. I find the 2nd article interesting that it didn't include his victim was an open carrier...so was it the gun or the robbery that set off his violence?

    Edit: And no I do not need a pop up book...does your mother need to put soap in your mouth?

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    Family: No fight over cop's gun | albuquerque, nm | krqe news 13 new mexico

    Making things up to prove your point helps no one. I don't see any indication you meant to be sarcastic......

    From the article.
    APD had arrested Chris Torres in February for impersonating a federal agent. Police said he stood up in a restaurant and declared he was with the Drug Enforcement Agency, and that another customer was trying to rob the place.
    Good luck, Merrill. Tough to argue with someone who's always right and makes stuff up to boot. You'd be better off debating a 5-yr old what's healthier to eat - steamed vegetables or cookies!
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall:236433
    Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    Family: No fight over cop's gun | albuquerque, nm | krqe news 13 new mexico

    Making things up to prove your point helps no one. I don't see any indication you meant to be sarcastic......

    From the article.
    APD had arrested Chris Torres in February for impersonating a federal agent. Police said he stood up in a restaurant and declared he was with the Drug Enforcement Agency, and that another customer was trying to rob the place.
    Good luck, Merrill. Tough to argue with someone who's always right and makes stuff up to boot. You'd be better off debating a 5-yr old what's healthier to eat - steamed vegetables or cookies!
    Says the guy that can't support any of his arguments beyond personal opinion. Then retreats back to name calling and ignoring. Now that sounds like a 5 year old.

    has anyone else noticed the majority of threads b2 presents himself turn into name calling, and quickly die or get locked?

    Edit: I would also like to point out grm had only been here a month, and could start providing half decent examples. Props to him for at least doing some research for you.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by grmerrill View Post
    You have peaked my interest... I am going to open a thread to see if anyone here from Utah is an OCer. Explain one thing... What is it about OCing that deters crime? It can't just be the fact that they know you have a gun. If it was so there wouldn't be nearly as many police officer widows. But i'm fairly new so i'm not sure of the arguement.
    grmerrill,

    Deterrence is about benefit v. consequence. If you can convince your opponent that the consequences of them attacking you outweigh the benefit they might gain by attacking such that they decide the consequences far out weigh the benefit....then you have deterred them.

    That's why it is impossible to compare police officers getting shot at to Joe Civilian getting shot at. There are a completely different set of benefits to the criminal for doing so.

    Why would a criminal face the consequences of getting killed, or at a minimum starting a gunfight which is much more likely to draw attention to them and get them arrested, when there is nothing to indicate that they can gain any more benefit from attacking me than they can get from attacking the next guy to come along who looks just like me, except they aren't visibly armed? It just doesn't make sense.

    Let's try to put out this example: you are a five year old kid at a reception. You've already had 1 cupcake and mom has told you no more, but you want another one. There are two tables of cupcakes, one table has a group of adults around it talking, including your mom. The other table of cupcakes is across the room with nobody standing around it. Which table would have less potential for consequences for snatching a cupcake? The table with the adults standing around it, or the table all by itself? The benefit is the same, but the chances of dire consequences are much greater.

    That's why deterrence with a visibly carried firearm works with the majority of criminals. The benefits of attacking the unarmed person are likely to be exactly the same, but the consequences of attacking the visibly armed person are much greater. The benefits to attacking a police officer are entirely different.

    And then there is the argument that a criminal will attack the visibly armed citizen in order for them to get their gun. Well, the first question is, if the criminal doesn't have a gun, do you REALLY think they are going to attempt to forcibly take away a gun from a person carrying it? Kind of uneven odds. Would it not be much, much easier for a criminal to steal a couple hundred dollars and buy a gun or have someone buy it for them? And would it not be much, much easier for a criminal to steal that couple hundred dollars from a person who is not visibly armed?

    And, if the criminal already has a gun, then where would this overwhelming desire come from to use that gun to attempt to take another gun from an armed citizen? Even if they did get the gun, they would still have to sell or pawn it. Would it not be much easier for the criminal just to steal a credit card or cash from someone not visibly armed?

    It just does not make any kind of sense at all for a criminal to attack Joe Citizen who is visibly carrying a gun, when all that criminal has to do is walk down the street one block, or wait two minutes for the guy with the gun to leave, and the criminal will have any number of other targets to choose from that aren't visibly armed, and from which they are more likely to obtain the exact same benefit from attacking that they would get by attacking the visibly armed person. There simply is no increase in benefit for the criminal to attack the armed person.

    Cops and armed security guards are entirely different because the benefits to attacking them for the criminal is completely different.

    And then there is the argument that I am in a bank, and the bank robbers come through the doors and the red neon light suddenly appears over my head that flashes "SHOOT ME FIRST, I HAVE A GUN!" That simply does not happen in real life, and has never been documented to happen in real life because the criminal conducting the hi tempo, fast paced, "guns blazing" robbery isn't going to take the time to examine what everyone is carrying on their belts. Now, the all day hostage situation, sure. But again a person needs to examine odds v. benefits. The odds that I am going to encounter the ordinary street thug are much, much, much greater than the odds of me being in a bank at exactly the wrong time. And the odds that my visible firearm will deter the ordinary street thug so that they just wait for the next victim are greater than than those that my gun won't deter them.

    There is no reason for me not to play the odds that are in my favor. Other people have their reasons for not doing so, and that's fine - it's their chips they are gambling with, not mine.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    The interesting thing about B2 is that he posts almost exclusively on the OC board...and obviously just for the purpose of causing the thread to digress into insults.
    I am trying to figure out which there are more of on these forums, posts by B2 mocking OC, or posts by G50AE mocking CCW Badges and Sheepdogs.

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    I am trying to figure out which there are more of on these forums, posts by B2 mocking OC, or posts by G50AE mocking CCW Badges and Sheepdogs.
    Is this the first time you referred to yourself in 3rd person?

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