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Thread: Open carry experience...

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1:237199
    Yes, there are definitely rules in the hood. Most people don't have experience with ghetto culture. It's simple... the drug dealers want to profit so the general attacking of a civilian is discouraged. But this goes south for anyone who breaks their rules (like disrespecting the rats) or when the benefit is great enough that they don't care about the drug business. The biggest mistake is thinking you can call it. No one can tell you for sure what will happen.

    Some open carriers write posts that show they don't seem to understand ghetto culture. Post after post indicates that they believe the perp is afraid of their gun. While this may be true in certain settings it is entirely untrue in gang culture and the ghettos. These people fear no one.

    If the ladies OC they will get attacked... without hesitation. They can probably drive through, get their drugs and leave. If they walk (regardless of CC or unarmed) they'll probably get attacked/raped/robbed as the benefit of this exceeds the monetary gain of dealing drugs to them. You mention localgirl and tuckersmom. I doubt either of these level-headed ladies would walk through such a place.

    The police routinely get attacked when arriving at the scene, as do firefighters and EMT's. I trained my own K9's with this department. The department's dogs are repeatedly attacked. Nice dogs get quite vicious after a few years of it. On some blocks they would rather watch the house burn so they drive away emergency personnel, thus the entertainment value. Police are regularly stoned/bricked. Attempts at arrest turn into riots. The feds are now involved because this particular city is way past what the police can handle.

    As I've repeatedly stated, I support open carry. But people must understand that it's not smart everywhere. Anyone who would argue this is inexperienced. We must never be so naive as to believe we can predicct behavior in such a setting. Learn the streets - stay safe - live long.
    First off, let me say i acknowledge that you are ok with open carry, I am not ignoring that line in all your posts. I don't want this to sound like an oc or cc is better or worse. I want to focus on this specific reason, which we can call "the hood", if thats ok.

    I can see where there are basic understandings of business. Call them rules, sure. But the violent behaviour has no rules to it, as you said, they will kill for the fun of it. Open or concealed, doesn't matter.

    As far as ladies in the hood, what about gentlemen in the hood. Any level headed gun owner would not find themselves in a drug ridden violent hood anyways.

    As far as EMT and firefighters. I can not say 100% for sure how every department in your area works. I do know they try to nationally train all EMT's and Fire Departments the same. It goes like this:

    1: Is the scene safe? (If the answer is yes, move on, if the answer is no, you say, "I will park my vehicle at a safe distance until police have arrived and cleared the scene.)
    2: BSI (Body substance Isolation ie: gloves, glasses, gown, etc etc depending on call) for my crew and I


    If you don't say those two things before ANY national test scenario you fail. If you enter a scene that is unsafe, you fail. If you forget to mention BSI, you fail. If you are in a scene, and it becomes dangerous and you don't immediately leave until police arrive, you fail.

    I won't say EMT's and FF don't jump the gun on some scenes, but I highly doubt EMT/FF go into the hood without police (fed for your hood) escort. More importantly, the reason they get attacked is completely different anyways. They get attacked because most druggies feel anyone in a uniform will try and arrest them. As a paramedic we are trained for this exact scenario when we give Narcan to an narcotic overdose patient. Or when we have to deal with people who have stayed with an overdosed patient, they do not like to talk to uniformed people because they believe we will arrest them. We have to convince them to talk to us, tell them we are not there to arrest them, so we can help their overdosed friend. We are trained to slowly get them back to consciousness, but to be ready for them to freak out because we are in uniform and they will think we are arresting them. Key words, arresting. Police do it, EMT/FF are seen as having that authority, and gang members and druggies do not want that. They don't attack the random person walking by because they think he/she is going to arrest htem, they attack them for other reasons as you mentioned, or no reason at all.

    I wont disagree it's not smart everywhere either. I haven't read anywhere stating it would be smart to carry in such places. BUT such places make up such a tiny percentage of places the average citizen goes, saying it's only "certain" scenarios is overestimating the chances of being in the hood, an underestimating the effectiveness of deterrance. I wouldn't want to open carry in Mexico, the middle east, mainland China either...i wouldn't want to go there in the first place. I don't make my choices off that 1% chance. I make my choices off of what I think will work 95% of the time. That 5% includes the hood you speak off and its easily avoidable.

    I tell you this, I do not know ghetto culture. My parents blessed me with a life outside of that society. I do know, that culture makes up less than 5% of the population, and it's going to effect my life even less than that because I actively choose to avoid those places.

    I want to reiterate that point I feel is the most important. I make my choices based on what I think will work at least 95% of the time. The hood accounts for less than .1% of my entire life, therefore it doesn't dictate my decision.

  2.   
  3. #172
    CC'r... OC'r...

    I get the argument but dont agree. Im simply a gun owner, daily carrier and do what fits the dress or is comfortable for the day. I like CC most of the time because Im a stealthy kind of guy, but other days... I like to announce.

    Im kinda interested in knowing where you went NavyLCDR, Im not into karaoke but alwayse looking for a friendly place.

  4. #173
    Join Date
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    SE Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    That' why I'm calling BS to stories of gangs willy-nilly attacking police, fire & emt personel;
    I'm calling "BS" on your entire self-serving story. Strange that you waited so long to to relate a tale so crucial to your POV.

    Total BS.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  5. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    First off, let me say i acknowledge that you are ok with open carry, I am not ignoring that line in all your posts. I don't want this to sound like an oc or cc is better or worse. I want to focus on this specific reason, which we can call "the hood", if thats ok.

    I can see where there are basic understandings of business. Call them rules, sure. But the violent behaviour has no rules to it, as you said, they will kill for the fun of it. Open or concealed, doesn't matter.

    As far as ladies in the hood, what about gentlemen in the hood. Any level headed gun owner would not find themselves in a drug ridden violent hood anyways.

    As far as EMT and firefighters. I can not say 100% for sure how every department in your area works. I do know they try to nationally train all EMT's and Fire Departments the same. It goes like this:

    1: Is the scene safe? (If the answer is yes, move on, if the answer is no, you say, "I will park my vehicle at a safe distance until police have arrived and cleared the scene.)
    2: BSI (Body substance Isolation ie: gloves, glasses, gown, etc etc depending on call) for my crew and I


    If you don't say those two things before ANY national test scenario you fail. If you enter a scene that is unsafe, you fail. If you forget to mention BSI, you fail. If you are in a scene, and it becomes dangerous and you don't immediately leave until police arrive, you fail.

    I won't say EMT's and FF don't jump the gun on some scenes, but I highly doubt EMT/FF go into the hood without police (fed for your hood) escort. More importantly, the reason they get attacked is completely different anyways. They get attacked because most druggies feel anyone in a uniform will try and arrest them. As a paramedic we are trained for this exact scenario when we give Narcan to an narcotic overdose patient. Or when we have to deal with people who have stayed with an overdosed patient, they do not like to talk to uniformed people because they believe we will arrest them. We have to convince them to talk to us, tell them we are not there to arrest them, so we can help their overdosed friend. We are trained to slowly get them back to consciousness, but to be ready for them to freak out because we are in uniform and they will think we are arresting them. Key words, arresting. Police do it, EMT/FF are seen as having that authority, and gang members and druggies do not want that. They don't attack the random person walking by because they think he/she is going to arrest htem, they attack them for other reasons as you mentioned, or no reason at all.

    I wont disagree it's not smart everywhere either. I haven't read anywhere stating it would be smart to carry in such places. BUT such places make up such a tiny percentage of places the average citizen goes, saying it's only "certain" scenarios is overestimating the chances of being in the hood, an underestimating the effectiveness of deterrance. I wouldn't want to open carry in Mexico, the middle east, mainland China either...i wouldn't want to go there in the first place. I don't make my choices off that 1% chance. I make my choices off of what I think will work 95% of the time. That 5% includes the hood you speak off and its easily avoidable.

    I tell you this, I do not know ghetto culture. My parents blessed me with a life outside of that society. I do know, that culture makes up less than 5% of the population, and it's going to effect my life even less than that because I actively choose to avoid those places.

    I want to reiterate that point I feel is the most important. I make my choices based on what I think will work at least 95% of the time. The hood accounts for less than .1% of my entire life, therefore it doesn't dictate my decision.
    When someone calls 911 the police also arrive on scene, usually before the fire or ambulance as it's a very small city (6 square miles) and LEO are already mobile. There was a recent rash of stoning firefighters and police when they arrived. After some arrests were made the liberal, democrat, former legal aid attorney, turned judge, released everyone in their own recognizance. He subsequently dismissed charges. He though it was funny and openly laughed about the police being stoned and bottled. Here is a letter written by the chief of police to the judge giving him hell about his position on the stoning of officers --> http://www.thrnewmedia.com/assets/kulkin.pdf. This particluar city is out of control and there are no judges willing to reel in the local wildlife. The residents stone police as entertainment.

    You're correct in that no one should go into these neighborhoods. Unfortunatley this is where the local unemployment office, social security office, motor vehicle office and community college are. So many people have little choice but to enter this city.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #175
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    Pretty stupid degradation of a thread. I don't walk around in my own neighbor hood, so why would anybody go where they don't live and walk around OC or CC.

  7. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    That' why I'm calling BS to stories of gangs willy-nilly attacking police, fire & emt personel; at least in any "high" number of occurances. I'm sure there is the random attack. But, it's NOT an everyday occurance.
    I don't "BS" anyone. Don't need to. Don't care what anyone thinks. Here's some documentation to backup my statements.

    Critics ask state to clamp down on Judge Kulkin | recordonline.com
    http://www.thrnewmedia.com/assets/kulkin.pdf
    Can FBI Agent James Gagliano Make Newburgh Safe? -- New York Magazine

    Think you know the hood? Feel free to take a walk downtown.

    Thread is gettin old. We shouldn't hijack it.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #177

    Lightbulb Pointless Bickering

    Could someone please add the "pointless bickering" search tag to this thread? I already used my two tags with "ccw badges" and "sheepdog".

  9. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE:237361
    Could someone please add the "pointless bickering" search tag to this thread? I already used my two tags with "ccw badges" and "sheepdog".
    How about a thread arson tag to cover your participation. You seem to be in every thread I see egging people on. You seem to be the king of thread flaming here.

  10. #179
    Join Date
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    Location
    South Carolina USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I don't "BS" anyone. Don't need to. Don't care what anyone thinks. Here's some documentation to backup my statements.

    Critics ask state to clamp down on Judge Kulkin | recordonline.com
    http://www.thrnewmedia.com/assets/kulkin.pdf
    Can FBI Agent James Gagliano Make Newburgh Safe? -- New York Magazine

    Think you know the hood? Feel free to take a walk downtown.

    Thread is gettin old. We shouldn't hijack it.
    I agree BC1. We shouldn't hijack.
    I do know the hood I'm very familar with places in Memphis & Atlanta that I'm certain would rival NYC or LA as the worst hoods in the country.

    I wasn't attacking you and I know that there are problems in some areas of the country. (I've been there.) But, I just don't believe the problems are numerous or widespread.

    Sorry if I offended.

  11. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1:237269
    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    That' why I'm calling BS to stories of gangs willy-nilly attacking police, fire & emt personel; at least in any "high" number of occurances. I'm sure there is the random attack. But, it's NOT an everyday occurance.
    I don't "BS" anyone. Don't need to. Don't care what anyone thinks. Here's some documentation to backup my statements.

    Critics ask state to clamp down on Judge Kulkin | recordonline.com
    http://www.thrnewmedia.com/assets/kulkin.pdf
    Can FBI Agent James Gagliano Make Newburgh Safe? -- New York Magazine

    Think you know the hood? Feel free to take a walk downtown.

    Thread is gettin old. We shouldn't hijack it.
    I think Navy posted this thread to spark conversations, just like the one we had. We should ask him...

    NAVY hey bud, did we hijack your thread? And if so, do you want it back? Or is this ok?

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